a Charming question?

[MrCharm]

Tonight, one of my PCs charmed an NPC that was not hostile, they just thought he was. They asked him a few questions to determine if he hated them, or was going to be hostile.

None of the questions were particularly insulting, or anything. In the PHB, it doesnt say anything about automatic hostility after the spelll wears off, so what do you think this NPC would do?

(He is very direct, and aggressive, but only toward evil or evil sympathizers.)

TIA

 

[Tom McCafferty]

Charming someone without their consent is a hostile act. Who knows what subliminal suggestions will have been implanted in the victims mind?

I suggest your NPC would change his opinion on the PC who charmed them from neutral to hostile.

 

[MrCharm]

Charming someone without their consent is a hostile act. Who knows what subliminal suggestions will have been implanted in the victims mind?

I suggest your NPC would change his opinion on the PC who charmed them from neutral to hostile.

Thanks for your reply. I suspect this has been covered in an Ask the Sage question, but would he automatically be aware of the spell being cast, if he failed his save (or made it)?

 

[Darklone]

Usually by the rules, spellcasting is pretty obvious. So yes, he would remember it.

 

[jgsugden]

The spell does not disguise memory. The target can rememeber having a spell cast at him. If he has spellcraft, he may even know what spell it was (which would have no effect on him while charmed other than the target wonderingwhy his good friend bothered to charm him).

What happens at the end of the spell is unclear and subject to DM interpretation. The spell does not specify that the creature returns to their previous state of mind regarding the caster. I have always had the target figure respond naturally when the spell ends - remembering what they've done and allowing them to figure out they were magiclaly influenced if they performed acts out of the norm for their personality. Some NPCs get very angry and immediately attack the caster (if present) once they figure out what has happenned. Others decide that the caster did a good thing by charming them to prevent a fight ... though this type of responce is rare.

 

[Otterscrubber]

Well I've always had a bit of a problem with charm for this very reason. The main reason you want to use charm in the first place is to be sly and...well....charm someone into helping you. If the spell causes them to get hostile afterwards you probably shouldn't have used it in the first place as they are mad at you now as opposed to just a minute ago. What difference does it make, you might as well have threatened them with force to get what you just got by enchantment for all the cleverness it did you. I've always considered this a subtle spell, but gameplay and the rules as written has shown me otherwise.

I try to think of examples of charms being used in movies or books and honestly I have trouble remembering any. The only one that comes to mind (please don't laugh too hard) is the movie Aladdin where Jafar kept charming the king and he seemed pretty clueless afterward.

 

[Kurzak T]

For subtle manipulation, take a look at the hypnotism spell. The target does not remember he was hypnotized, but of course it's also less effective. It allows you to make a single suggestion instead of ordering around the subject for 1 hour/level.

I always considered the charm spells to be more of a brute force 'you shall obey me' spell to be used on orcs, ogres, giants, etc. to pick up temporary muscle.

Hypnotism and Suggestion would be the influencing spells to use if you're trying to be subtle.

edit: Oh, and to answer the original poster: If *I* were subjected to magical compulsion without my consent, I'd be pretty pissed. If I were in a civilized setting like a town or city, I'd probably go to the authorities and press charges against the spellcaster. If I were in the wilderness, my response would vary depending on my relative power vs the spellcaster but at the very least I would have a very unhelpful attitude toward him/her.

 

[MrCharm]

I forgot to tell you, that he failed to notice the spell being cast (spot check).

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Kurzak T]

I forgot to tell you, that he failed to notice the spell being cast (spot check).

The subject is still going to remember he was influenced by a spell. Joe the charmer was suddenly his bestest pal. To me it'd be no different than if he was under a hold person. In fact, with charm it's easier for him to figure out who cast it since that's the guy he suddenly thought was his best friend.

 

[Scion]

And failed to hear the spell being cast? (listen check of around dc 2 from the vocal component) After that he feels different, later on he suddenly feels different again.. mind effecting spells definately leave some confusiong. Some characters wont care for whatever reason, others will definately have a negative reaction.

I would have to say that the guy would eventually figure it out (time up to his intelligence or wisdom and up to the dm) at which point he will be convinced of the parties evil nature and take action according to his nature.