a Charming question?

[Ottergame]

I'd say it depended on how the PCs treated the charmed person. Is there a rule saying someone knows when a spell is cast on them? If the PCs are subtle, the NPC might not give it a second thought later.

 

[Scion]

Yep, you always know when a spell is cast on you. It has to do with having to resist it.

For this npc at least, even if they are very nice to him it sounds like he will still think of them as evil. After all, they did change his perceptions in order to get information out of him. How does he know that what he remembers, and it should be obvious 'something' strange was happening, actually happened. Perhaps he was tortured but told to remember them being nice. Paranoia is a strong motivator

 

[Stalker0]

I got to disagree with most here.... if the npc just reacts hostility after the charm wears off then that's a preety crappy charm. The spell effects your mind, so I have it as the time you were charmed always stays charmed in your memory. So while you know you were charmed you just don't think about it as bad, or even care very much. It "must have been for a good reason"

While there's nothing in the rules to support my view, I'm going with the spirit of the rules

 

[shilsen]

I got to disagree with most here.... if the npc just reacts hostility after the charm wears off then that's a preety crappy charm.

...

While there's nothing in the rules to support my view, I'm going with the spirit of the rules

Considering that the spell lasts 1 hr/lvl and lends itself very easily to creative use, I'd say strengthening it the way you have is overdoing it for a 1st lvl spell. Not to mention the repercussions on a game world where someone can charm anyone, whether political figures, merchants, town guards, etc. and never ever have to worry about the individual realizing it. That's a very strange spirit you play with

 

[Ottergame]

Don't forget, 99.999% of the NPCs won't know WHAT is being cast on them, so even if you do let them know on a failed save, they probley won't understand they are being charmed. They'll probley look back on subtle manipulation of just a silly lapse in judgement on their part.

 

[Darklone]

If you wanna go lapse... let the NPC act depending on what the players did with him. E.g. how far it was from his usual behavior.
Example:
- They charm a city guard who's not on watch, take him for a drink and pay for him as well as some dancing girls... and ask him about some "secret" stuff. He'll fondly remember the evening and just thinks he met some nice guys who like him. He might be suspicious if they asked too much, but he wouldn't mind if they didn't overuse it. GOOOOD.
- Ugly necromancer charms a girl and abuses her for *you know what*. After the spell wears off she notices that she acted... differently to her feelings. She'll assume he enchanted her. BAAAAAD.

 

[Voadam]

Tonight, one of my PCs charmed an NPC that was not hostile, they just thought he was. They asked him a few questions to determine if he hated them, or was going to be hostile.

None of the questions were particularly insulting, or anything. In the PHB, it doesnt say anything about automatic hostility after the spelll wears off, so what do you think this NPC would do?

(He is very direct, and aggressive, but only toward evil or evil sympathizers.)

TIA

He will notice that he feels differently about the charmer, but that's about it. He will act accordingly ("why did I think this guy was a good guy before?"

The rules only say he will notice on a succesful save, they don't say he will notice a nonobvious failed save.

From the SRD:

Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

As a PC wizard I try to do my charm person spells when they aren't watching to try to avoid this problem.

 

[Scion]

Soo...

NPC:
'hostile force' or 'tingle'
what was that?

PC: hey there!
NPC: wow it is my best friend in the world! How are you doing? what was your name again?

a few hours later..

NPC: hmm.. I felt something wrong happen to me, and then this guy I've never seen before was my best friend.. something is.. wrong.. about that..


Now as I've said before, not all npcs will be able to notice, some wont even care.. but I think it is a rarity to 'not care' and anyone with a decent int and wis score (not normal for most of the populace) should have a really good chance of figuring 'something' out


In older edditions there was the 'friends' spell. Now I never understood why anyone would cast this ever. Charm person isnt nearly as bad, but I still think there could be very serious repercusions. 'It is only a first level spell' leaps to mind, and trying to do something it wasnt directly created for. It charms them, but after the charm wears off.......