A Creature Level Adjustment Question for Your Enjoyment

[Droogie]

A bugbear has a LA +1. He get +4 Str, +2 dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha, 60' darkvision, +3 natural armor, and +4 move silently. He also starts with 3 "bugbear" levels, making an off-the-shelf bugbear an ECL of 4.

Say I wanted to let a player replace these humanoid levels with 3 regular core class levels. My question is: would this be unbalancing? Does the LA +1 mostly refer to his bonuses and abilities, or does it also take into account that the three humanoid levels are underpowered?

Should it be boosted to an LA of +2 if I let this happen?

 

[shilsen]

I think letting a PC get all those things you listed for LA +1 would be very unbalancing. The three humanoid levels do factor into the LA being only a +1. If you're removing them and replacing with class levels, a bump to +2 is definitely in order.

 

[Imre]

I've done this. I let a party of four start at ECL 6 and substitute racial HD with class levels. It is VERY unbalancing.

If you look at how Savage Species constructs monster classes, it will give you an idea of how broken it can be.

That said, it also depends on what level you're starting at. As I'm sure you can find in innumerable places in this forum, ECL calculation is completely wrong at high levels. A 20th level character would DESTROY a 13th level vampire, for example. But that's a whole other can of worms.

If people want to avoid racial HD, you might want to consider looking at the advancement rules in the MM. For instance outsiders go up 1 CR for every 2 HD (approximately). Trading 2 HD for one class level may not be a big deal in this case. This, of course, could be extrapolated for the other races.

 

[Droogie]

Thanks guys, your insight is appreciated.

I guess I'll keep it simple and bump it to LA +2. If it gets crippling at later levels, I'll let the PC do the LA buy-off option from Unearthed Arcana.

Cheers

 

[wildstarsreach]

Thanks guys, your insight is appreciated.

I guess I'll keep it simple and bump it to LA +2. If it gets crippling at later levels, I'll let the PC do the LA buy-off option from Unearthed Arcana.

Cheers

A first level Bugbear is ECL 5. Level taken plus LA+1 plus 3 racial HD. A first level ighter bugbear is equivalent to a 5th level human fighter.

 

[amethal]

If it gets crippling at later levels, I'll let the PC do the LA buy-off option from Unearthed Arcana.

Cheers

Bear in mind the LA buy off effectively gives something for nothing.

My 8th level tiefling binder (ECL 9) gained a level and, instead of levelling as normal (9th level tiefling binder, ECL 10) bought off the LA and became a 9th level tiefling binder, ECL 9.

Its great if you think the character has been hard done by; potential problems otherwise.

 

[Corsair]

A 20th level character would DESTROY a 13th level vampire, for example. But that's a whole other can of worms.

As he should. A 13th level vampire is only CR 15. LA and CR measure different things.

 

[Vegepygmy]

I guess I'll keep it simple and bump it to LA +2. If it gets crippling at later levels, I'll let the PC do the LA buy-off option from Unearthed Arcana.

I don't think you'll find it at all "crippling." It's actually a pretty good bargain. Not quite LA +3, but a very good LA +2.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Why not call him a bugbear by any other name?

Cut the stat bonuses down to PHB Race levels. Maybe +2 Str, -2 Cha

and give him the +2 to move silently and the +1 natural armor and darkvision.

Then call him a PC race. LA +0 for the above would work for me.

 

[Imre]

As he should. A 13th level vampire is only CR 15. LA and CR measure different things.

Granted. You're missing two points:

1) CR measures the challenge a creature would pose to a party of 4 with a given average party level. That is CR says basically nothing about how a single character would do;

2) My point was that given the two builds, both of which are ECL 20, the vampire is *tremendously* underpowered as compared to a PC with 20 class levels.