a curiously overbalanced class, or the worst munchkin class ever in one of my games

JPL said:
Oh, I was thinking of the Hulking Hurler. My bad.

What's the term for the opposite of min-maxing, anyway --- purposely building a sub-par character for the sake of flavor? Because that exemplar prestige class [from Complete Adventurer] is crying out for that sort of oddball character...

Dude, exemplar SCREAMS for a rogue or bard to take it and jack their saves into the stratosphere. "High Int? Check. High Cha? Check. 2 levels of paladin (or four levels of Holy Liberator)? Check. Choked down Skill Focus? Check. All right, let's roll!"

At least, that was my plan for it.

Brad
 

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JPL said:
I like the concept behind the class, but it is the most famously overpowered prestige class of 3.5, isn't it?
Nope. The Hulking Hurler/War Hulk builds on the WotC optimisation boards are merely an attempt to maximise damage dealt, not create the most effective character possible. They certainly do try to do that, but they use different builds.

IMO, the Dweomerkeeper, from the Complete Divine web enhancement is the most overpowered (famous or otherwise) prestige class of 3.5
 
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ph34r said:
My current PC is a War Hulk.

Ogre (4 Giant HD)/Barbarian 2/Fighter 1/War Hulk 4, ECL 13.

It's not that bad if you read my posts in the "Out with the old..." thread. Yeah, he's a one trick pony as far as abilities, but he's one of the most fun PC's I've roleplayed in awhile.

As far as the class goes, I still don't see it as that big of a deal. The class doesn't get a BAB so the +2 Str every level isn't so bad. What's an extra 1.5 damage every level if you two-hand the weapon? The Mighty Swing pretty much replaces extra attacks gained from BAB. (He can't attack a 10ft. radius, just 3 adjacent squares...big difference.) And the Rock Throwing isn't so great because if you go straight War Hulk your BAB is gonna suck so bad you can't really hit anything with them....I don't see a problem?
get yourself the Brutal Throw (IIRC) from Complete Adventurer: Lets you use your STR instead of your DEX for ranged thrown attacks.

AR
 

Psion said:
The classic fourfold (joke) model is munchkin/real men/roleplayer/loony. Loony could fit... ;)

I'm pushing for "Oompah-Loompah" as a sort of conceptual opposite to Munchkin - the type of person who believes that if you don't have at least two levels in Commoner and a skill focus in Profession: Manual Laborer, you're a hopeless powergamer, and who uses the phrase "ROLE-playing, not ROLL-playing" with a straight face.

Hasn't caught on, though.
 



Patman21967 said:
I have an old gaming buddy, who is in town for 3 weeks, playing in my game. He had no character, so I told one of my players to go ahead and work him up a Half-Ogre Barbarian, because it fit where they are. He shows up, gives Keith the character, and we start to play.

Well, he made him a War-Hulk. I don't have the book it's in, so I was suprised when on his first attack, he attacked every monster around him, in a 10 foot radius...twice...doing an average of like 35 points...Me and the other players started laughing....and then JB whipped out the miniatures book, which I didn't know even had classes for the RPG in it, and there is is, in black, white and a little color. Well, we retired him real quick, and made him a regular old Barbarian.

What a ridiculous prestige class....

Sounds more like a case of none of you having a clue about the rules in question or making an effective character.

For starters, as others have pointed out, the character was illegal. Next up, it wasn't as effective as it could have been. 35 points of damage in a hit is not (believe it or not) an obscene number, especially against stuff like trolls. Doing it to all of them at once requires a bit of specialisation admittedly. Oh, and this is all core rules stuff. If you want to include complete X, then it's pretty easy to pull this off.

I mean there are multiple spells that your wizard could have used which would have ensured the death of all the trolls with minimal damage to the party. With unlucky rolls for the monsters, it's all over in a single round. In fact, given a single round of preparation, and 2 spells spent I could kill them all in melee as a wizard.

At level 10, trolls are the equivalent of goblins or kobolds. Frankly they're small and easy to squish. Don't think that because someone does so that the character is somehow too powerful or a munchkin.
 

Patman21967 said:
Would you like your muchkin glazed, cream or jelly filled, or simpy chocolate covered?

Hmmm. The evidence seems to suggest that your buddy was using incorrect rules, you're accidentally exaggerating, or I misunderstood you when you said he was "10th ECL" - I'm not sure which. I'm assuming you mean 10th lvl including ECL.

Let's take a look at the class; you can find it most of the way down the page right here. He needed a +5 BAB to get into it, so if you folks were using the +1 ECL half-ogre then he'd qualify once he was a 6th lvl character (5th lvl barbarian.) That means he was a barbarian 5/warhulk 4, was using mighty swing, and had a BAB of +5 (so only one attack a round.) Alternatively, he was a bbn 6/war hulk 3, had two attacks a round at +6/+1, and didn't have access to mighty swing.

WotC article said:
Mighty swing: Starting at 4th level, the war hulk can make mighty swings. A mighty swing is like a great swing except that it is an attack action rather than a full-round action. Thus, the war hulk can move and make a mighty swing or (if he can make multiple attacks) make multiple mighty swings in a single round.

Great swing: Starting at 2nd level, the war hulk is able to make a great, sweeping swing with a melee weapon. In melee, as a full-round action, the war hulk can choose three squares adjacent to each other (he must threaten all of them). His attack applies to all creatures in those squares. Make one attack roll and apply that roll as an attack against each defender. If the war hulk rolls a critical hit, only the first creature suffers the critical hit.

Walls and similar obstacles can block the great swing. Start with one square that the war hulk threatens. Each successive square chosen must be adjacent to the previous square and have line of effect from that square. Two squares separated by a wall, for instance, can't be chosen as adjacent squares for the great swing.

The war hulk may skip creatures, attacking only those he wants to. For example, if there are three creatures in a row -- an enemy, an ally, and another enemy -- the war hulk can choose those three squares for the great swing but strike only the enemies.

If the war hulk drops one of his foes with a great swing, he may cleave normally. However, he may cleave only once for every time he swings, even if he drops more than one foe.

If the war hulk deals sneak attack damage, it applies only to the first creature struck with each attack.
Either way, this guy is getting only one attack a round over three spaces: either at +5 BAB with mighty swing, or using a full round action to do a great swing at +6 BAB. Unless his ECL is 11th, he isn't swinging at every square around him no matter what.

I've thought of one other rules error that might have occurred. Each successive square chosen must be adjacent to the previous square and have line of effect from that square. Trolls are large creatures that take up a 10' x 10' square. Since he can only hit three adjacent squares, at most he could only hit two trolls standing right next to one another.

I'm thinking it isn't accurate to call a class over-powered when there's a rules mis-call. :)

The moral of the story might be: never allow in rules you aren't familiar with.
 
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Altamont Ravenard said:
get yourself the Brutal Throw (IIRC) from Complete Adventurer: Lets you use your STR instead of your DEX for ranged thrown attacks.
No need. The War Hulk's rock throwing ability already lets him do this with his rocks.
 

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