A difference between low magic and rare magic?

[Geoff Watson]

Besides, I want my magic to be, well... magical, i.e fantastic, extraordinary, amazing. Hard to do when everybody meets encounters some form of magic on a daily basis.

If you really want that, you can't have any player spellcasters, or players who have read the rules, or players who also DM.
It doesn't really work, unless you use excessive amounts of DM-fiat.

Geoff.

 

[FireLance]

Besides, I want my magic to be, well... magical, i.e fantastic, extraordinary, amazing. Hard to do when everybody meets encounters some form of magic on a daily basis.

Repeat that sentence, but replace the every instance of the word "magic" with "technology" and tell me how it sounds.

Here I am, sitting at my desk in Singapore, typing on a computer to a virtual forum that manages to connect to people all over the world, eating breakfast that has been preserved by a refrigerator and warmed by a microwave, waiting for a call on my cellphone while my laundry is being done by a washing machine. And I still get a sense of awe and wonder when I read about the latest developments in science.

Think about it.

 

[Conaill]

If you really want that, you can't have any player spellcasters, or players who have read the rules, or players who also DM.

Sure you can. Just not with the D&D standard level of magic.

 

[Brilbadr]

Sure you can. Just not with the D&D standard level of magic.

Go get Conan.
Stop whinging about the spelling mistakes and buy it.
Not Low Magic. Mysterious Magic.
Difficult Magic.
Go on, buy Conan, beg borrow read. Don't say another word till you've finished. Nope not interested in your whining.
And don't come back till you're finished.
Sword and Sorcery not High Fantasy. Love it.
The money rules and the barbarian class are a bit skewed but that's a minor adaption. Take the massive leap.

 

[Conaill]

Repeat that sentence, but replace the every instance of the word "magic" with "technology" and tell me how it sounds.

Ok, let me run with that, just as an exercise... "I want my technology to be, well... magical, i.e fantastic, extraordinary, amazing. Hard to do when everybody meets encounters some form of technology on a daily basis."

Sounds like someone who would like to play in a world where technology is only just starting to develop. Maybe a Victorian era? Jules Verne perhaps, or Da Vinci? At most something with a steampunk flavor. Definitely NOT someone who would want to play in a Sci-Fi world. Forgotten Realms to me is kinda like the magic equivalent of SciFi, and standard D&D isn't much better.

Give me an Arthurian fantasy world anytime. Merlin was the greatest wizard of Arthur's time, but how much magic did he really do? Sure, he did some Illusion stuff and the like, but I don't remember him trying to solve all of the realm's problems by tossing fireballs around.

 

[FireLance]

Fair enough. My point, though, is that it's all a matter of relativity. A man of our times would find the technology level of Star Trek or Star Wars to be fantastic. Similarly, a man from our historical Renaissance period would find our level of technology to be fantastic, and a man from the Middle Ages would find his level of technology to be fantastic.

So, no matter how "common" or "powerful" magic is, you only need to encounter magic that does something that you had never experienced(quality) or on a scale that you had never experienced (quantity) to be awestruck.

If you are familiar with Piers Anthony's Xanth series or Sharon Green's Blending series, these are settings where magic is common but mostly weak. Everyone can do some form of magic, but it's usually minor: no more than starting a fire or producing light - the magical equivalent of a cigarette lighter. However, most common people seldom encounter truly powerful magic, and are still suitably impressed when a Magician summons three hurricanes flanked by two tornadoes to put down an infestation of magical vermin, or a High talent blankets an area in flames while protecting herself from being burned.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

So, no matter how "common" or "powerful" magic is, you only need to encounter magic that does something that you had never experienced(quality) or on a scale that you had never experienced (quantity) to be awestruck.

Ah, but that is the problem. In a high magic environment, magic becomes more available with level gain, with a result of requiring more, more, more to gain the effect.

Or think of it this way: In Aedon, a person that can fling a fireball is wielding incredible, world-shattering, awe-inspiring, destructive power that will be desired by kings and feared by villains. In Greyhawk, he comes in 12 packs.

 

[DGFan]

Remember, any technology not indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

 

[StalkingBlue]

I prefer a setting where magic is very rare. Only a few wizards spread across the continent, magic items few and far between. But the difference, I feel, is that the magic, once uncovered, is incrediably powerful. Am I drawing a wrong line here? Is this what people mean when they talk of "low magic"?
~~Brandon

aurin -

You were asking about terminology I believe, so I'll try and drag the thread back on topic. Problem with the term "low magic" is that not all people give it the same meaning, which leads to confusion in many of the current discussions about magic levels in campaigns.


There are two very different types of "reduced magic" (to avoid the "low" for now):

If you reduce the frequency of magic (usually both items and casters) in a setting, you get what is often referred to as a "rare-magic" setting. As you've said, in this case, a magic effect of a certain level will be more "powerful" relatively speaking than in a standard setting because its impact is so unusual and magic countermeasures are much less likely to be available when it is unleashed.

If OTOH you limit not the frequency of magic, but the accessibility of higher-level magic, spellcasters and items of hedge magic (charms etc) may be found at every turn and even be more all-pervasive than in a standard DnD setting (e.g. with all or almost all races and/or classes having minor spellcasting abilities), but magic will usually come at much weaker levels than in a standard setting. That is often called a "low-magic" or, more accurately, a "weak-magic" environment.


Of course some people refer to any setting that limits either the frequency of magic as a whole or the accessibility of higher-level magic as a "low-magic" setting - never mind the differences.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Of course some people refer to any setting that limits either the frequency of magic as a whole or the accessibility of higher-level magic as a "low-magic" setting - never mind the differences.

Another issue is the methods of reducing magic. That is to say, how it is done in Conan is different from how it is done in Midnight which is again different from how I did it for Aedon. To "explain" the full methods and balance of any given campaign, the entirety of that campaign's rules need to be available for analysis (my own rules, still being made OGL-friendly, currently stand alone as full rulebooks which my group uses instead of the Core Rulebooks). As such, saying "low magic" is a generalized way of saying "I reduced magic in some regard" in the hopes that people in the conversation won't assume the worst case scenario.

Unfortunately... :\