A DM's Dilemma: Item acquisition and placement

[Belzbet]

Here is my problem: as a DM one of my jobs is to give my PC's enough items so that they can take on the growing challenges... Also it is almost built in the the game to have your PC's searching nooks and crannies looking for items, and that maybe there are some items they just CANT find...

However, I HAVE TO GIVE items to the PC's and the PC's can just take 20 on their search checks anyway (and making an item un-findable is pointless)... I mean if they dont find the items I placed then I just have to remember that tally it up and place the same item or an equivelent in an encounter later... Also, forcing them to be in a stressful situation while looking for items (so they cant take 20) is not something that can be done ALL the time (and if they dont find the item then I just have to place it in an encounter later anywat)... SO I usually just give the PC's the items that I have placed in the encounters (with no check really needed, although I still have them roll for suspense and to encourage searching and looking around for things)...

Is there a better way????

 

[anest1s]

Well, if you think it slows down your game, and that it isn't fun for the PCs, just ignore it.

They can sell any loot they find, and they can buy any item they want, provided it is withing the towns gp limit. NPCs have way more treasure than monsters if you follow the table on the DMG...so this means that they can have all the useless crap, and your PCs can have a decent income even if they sell all of it at half price.

You can still say ''this item isn't allowed/doesn't exist'' so I don't really think that searching is something more than flavor. You can keep that flavor by telling them when they gather info ''Also you heard about an mythical sword, that a shopkeeper bought from some adventurers recently...everyone talks about how beautiful it looks'' and the sword may even be a +1 longsword with a +3 competence bonus on diplomacy checks...sure as hell rare, something worth mentioning and adds flavor. Now having the PCs search around for a bag of jumping caltrops... sure its rare, but who really cares...

 

[ExploderWizard]

Here is my problem: as a DM one of my jobs is to give my PC's enough items so that they can take on the growing challenges... Also it is almost built in the the game to have your PC's searching nooks and crannies looking for items, and that maybe there are some items they just CANT find...

However, I HAVE TO GIVE items to the PC's and the PC's can just take 20 on their search checks anyway (and making an item un-findable is pointless)... I mean if they dont find the items I placed then I just have to remember that tally it up and place the same item or an equivelent in an encounter later... Also, forcing them to be in a stressful situation while looking for items (so they cant take 20) is not something that can be done ALL the time (and if they dont find the item then I just have to place it in an encounter later anywat)... SO I usually just give the PC's the items that I have placed in the encounters (with no check really needed, although I still have them roll for suspense and to encourage searching and looking around for things)...

Is there a better way????

Yes there is. Since you are the DM and decide the nature of any challenges faced, why do these items have to be found? If some treasure is missed occasionally then so be it.

 

[Empirate]

Much of the game's balance revolves around treasure, that much is true. However, it doesn't say in the manual "you have to place this much treasure by that much monster" or anything like it. How your PCs acquire treasure doesn't matter, so long as they do.

So think about alternate ways of awarding 'power that is bound up in physical form', as I like to think about treasure. Maybe your group won't find anything of interest in the Ash Caves of Forlorn, but slaying the shadow dragon that lives there ensures the court wizard's favor - complete with a free pick from his trove?
Maybe the only "treasure" found with a pack of winter wolves is their pelts - but they sell for a pretty penny indeed!
And about that gem mine the PCs recently freed from a gargoyle incursion - it contains lots of black onys, which the PCs may now buy at reduced rate; alternately, the mine owner (who is a powerful necromancer) will reward each PC with a zombie gargoyle instead.
And don't forget the monastery the heroes saved from a bunch of ghosts - the clerics and monks were so grateful they prayed for the heroes for a full week; one morning, each PC awakens with a beautifully illustrated prayerbook under their cushion (which works as a Tome of the PC's choosing).
Last not least, whoever shall win the tourney of Bywater Watch will be outfitted in magical plate bearing the royal insignia. The runner-up receives a set of Mithril Chain as a consolation prize.

And so on.

 

[the Jester]

However, I HAVE TO GIVE items to the PC's

No you don't.

Let them work for it. Let them be off the wealth by level guidelines. See if they can handle it. Alternatively, let them continue with lower level challenges if an EL equal to the party level is too tough due to lack of whatever magic item.

But, NO, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE items to the pcs.

 

[kitcik]

Hmm? Did somebody say something?

I was distracted...

 

[Celebrim]

As a DM, you are only obligated to provide sufficient resources to handle any obstacle that you have imposed on the PC's.

You are under no obligation to give those resources to the PC's unearned.

You are also under no obligation to ensure that the PC's have sufficient resources to handle whatever obstacles that they impose on themselves.

You are also under no obligation to ensure that at Nth level, the PC's are capable of facing X encounters of Y encounter level while expending Z% of their resources. If your party has slightly less than the expected amount of loot for a given level, you just treat them as if they were of slightly lower level. If your party has slightly more loot than expected, treat them as if they were slightly higher level.

Right now, my current player's have PC's that are about halfway through 4th level. In the whole party of six players, there are 3 magic weapons (all +1) and little more than six magic items total (not counting minor potions). And indeed, many of these items are much weaker than normal magic items doing little more than giving a +3 enhancement bonus to a skill check, or allowing you to cast a minor spell once per day. Additionally, treasure is so rare that a single gold peice would be considered a major find, and even if they had money significant magic items beyond a few weak scrolls or potions wouldn't be available for purchase anyway. Yet the party has more than sufficient resources for overcoming most challenges, and indeed are well on their way to being a dominating force in the local community.

Now granted, my party hasn't yet fully realized the value of the treasure that enters into their hands. They raided a warehouse controlled by the bad guys, and found a ton of coffee beans and a ton of smoked tea leaves. This was worth a fantastic amount in an ancient economy where long distance trade is valuable, yet the party ignored the treasure and made no attempt to appraise its worth. They likewise ignored the fact that they probably could have taken defacto possession of the whole building.

As for taking 20 to find things, it requires 2 minutes to take 20 and search a 5'x5' area. A typical 30'x20' room with 10' high walls, generally requires about 90 minutes to take 20 to search fully - longer if it contains a large amount of stuff. But as the tea and coffee example indicates, its possible to hide treasure in plain sight so that even if it is found, it may not actually be acquired. Taking everything out of the dungeon and having it appraised by an expert will take additional time and effort, and may not always be practical given time constraints or even profitable given the effort required. Besides which, the merchant must be very honest indeed not to profit from the player's ignorance of Appraisal.

Additionally, search DC's in some situations may be too high to be practical unless some additional effort beyond the usual task of searching is taken. For example, searching a mucky pond might be nearly impossible until the water is drained to lower the DC. Searching a stable to find something might be nearly impossible until it is cleaned. Finding a trap door in the floor of a room that is filled with a foot thick layer of dirt might be impossible until the dirt is dug up.

 

[nijineko]

I'm fond of collecting non-obvious treasure. I recall one character of mine that made a practice of looting the dead enemies they faced... which was fine in her culture (waste not want not type) but bothered everyone else. So they left her to it. She never found much of anything but armor and weapons, and she had to surrender her wage in exchange for space on their wagons to haul it, but she wound up selling that stuff for more than the merchants of the caravan she was guarding managed to make for their trip. ^^

 

[kitcik]

I recall one character of mine that made a practice of looting the dead enemies they faced... which bothered everyone else. So they left her to it.

Are you sure you are playing D&D? WOOT! WOOT!

 

[anest1s]

I'm fond of collecting non-obvious treasure. I recall one character of mine that made a practice of looting the dead enemies they faced... which was fine in her culture (waste not want not type) but bothered everyone else. So they left her to it. She never found much of anything but armor and weapons, and she had to surrender her wage in exchange for space on their wagons to haul it, but she wound up selling that stuff for more than the merchants of the caravan she was guarding managed to make for their trip. ^^

I recall one character I once made who didn't do that. A priest of Shar.