A Druid Vampire

[Cor_Malek]

How about, all natural things stay dead after they die?

1. Not in RPG's, they don't. Do you suggest making druids lose they abilities if they are resurrected or even raised?

2. Let's allow this race-class only for players that were reanimated at least once then. Post-ALS players obviously count as unnatural and can play vampire druids. But what about BLS? Technically, they were dead by most definitions of the word ever conceived... But their coming back lacked the spark, if you know what I mean. And it's even called only "resuscitation"...

3. "Ah! But nowadays, death is defined by stop of brain, not heart and respiratory function! And no natural being can "come back to life" with it's brain dead."
Far-fetched as this argument is (nature is full of things without brains) it is also incorrect. Meet the tree Weta. In case it's not mentioned in this article - and you have to read more on them - this is what I mean: while their haemolymph (insects have 2-for-1! ) prevents their body cells from being irreversibly damaged down to -10 Celsius - their brain dies. And they just carry on without it, like every other... howdyacallit? Zombie.

edit: As for undead creatures, how about lungfish then? While they're mainly known for merely extremely long hybernation, there's at least one, very well documented case, when container filled with mud and one lungfish specimen was kinda lost between labs. A lot of paperwork tracking (it was being shipped from lab to lab) and six months later, the container was finally pried open. Inside it was their lungfish, alas inside shell of now hardened mud (dry now, so not technically mud... you know what I mean).
They added water and it came back to life.

Alas, as they did not vivisect/dissect it at that state, it is unconfirmed if it was functionally dead or if it achieved some ascended level of hibernation. And as this species is not exactly common - it's practically impossible to repeat this as experimental proof. It's hard to get one for study, so "take a good sample of specimens, and attempt to kill them, see what happens" is not the title that would sweep the grants ;-).

edit2:

Wow, cheap justification at work.

Well, D'uh!? Personally, I prefer term rationalization, but whatever.

All of this is made up in order to have some fun. Someone wanted to cast spells so he thought of wizards. Right now, as system becomes more and more complex and it can express even more of what we can imagine (yay!) someone wants to make a vampire druid. He didn't go the lazy way and just make it like some game combo, he wanted to make it believable at some level. He asked as for ideas for this concept, and apparently a lot of people (myself included) thought it was a fun idea, and quite easily explained by what we know about world of nature.
I hate to break it, but most RPG worlds aren't real. Cheap justification (I still prefer my term) is all there is to it.

 

[Set]

Wow, cheap justification at work.

Nope, just the opinion of a GM who doesn't dislike his players. If one of them has a neat idea, and no rules contradict it, and it's not terribly unbalancing, why the hell would I oppose it?

Similarly, as GM, I can put whatever I want into the game world, and I try to stick to the same guidelines. Is it crazy unbalanced? Is it forbidden by some mechanic somewhere? Even if it is forbidden, is there a clear and consistent reason *that applies in the game world as I'm using it,* that would cause me to say 'no' when I could instead be saying 'yes?'

It's a game of imagination. Even if the rules did forbid something, there are some of us who look at that and think, 'Why not?' Monte Cook mentioned the same thing in his write up of the Rage Mage prestige class. There was a blanket rule that someone who was raging could not cast spells, and he thought, 'Why not? What would it break?' And so the Rage Mage PrC was formed.

The same logic led to the creation of the Battle Dancer class in the Best of Dragon, a 'chaotic monk,' or the Herald, a 'lawful bard.' And, unlike the vampire druid, those things are actually explicitly forbidden.

Since vampires can be NE, and Druids can be NE, no rules exceptions need to be made to make a vampire druid. Indeed, someone cutting themselves off from something, in order to better study it, preserve it, etc. is a fairly common trope. Mastery through denial.

The ascetic attempts to deny his passions, and through them claims mastery of physical and worldly things, saying that through his vows of abstinence and diet of bread and water, he is mastering the flesh (when all he's really doing is avoiding it).

The bodhisatva denies his own entry into nirvana, that he might remain behind and counsel others.

This logic is common to many faiths, if not most faiths, and even creeps into physical training, military training, (no pain, no gain), etc. that, by removing ourselves from something, or purging ourselves of human weakness, or the body of frailty, we become more spiritually pure.

It's a great role-playing opportunity for a player in the sort of game where someone with the vampire template wouldn't be utterly ludicrous, or an interesting villain for the party to encounter, someone who has protected these woods for centuries, through bloodshed and 'Wild Hunts,' in his antlered helmet astride his red-eyed steed.

Like Bram Stoker's Dracula, he commands the elements of the natural world, calling up storms and pulling down the lightning from the howling night sky, and pitting the natural beasts of the world against those who come against him, changing his very form to become more beast than man, stalking in the form of the wolf, or soaring in the form of the bat.

Indeed, Dracula, with his weather control, animal control and shapeshifting into animal forms, seems like a natural to have some druid levels!

 

[Stormonu]

Sounds like an excellent BBEG idea, though it has some problems similar to the idea of a Paladin Vampire (Not a Blackguard vampire, a Paladin vampire). If you can get past the "looses power because rules says so", I think its a fine idea for a unique villain (or PC concept, in the right game circles).

Still, as far as the "self-loathing druid become vampire" goes, often the transformation into undeath twists the mind of the victim; a formerly Lawful Good individual can become a Chaotic Evil terror as a vampire; no reason a former druid become vampire might see himself as the ultimate predator and revel in his "new duties" to hunt and plague the living (perhaps reminding humanoids of nature's uncontrollable dark side).

 

[jonesy]

It's a great role-playing opportunity for a player in the sort of game where someone with the vampire template wouldn't be utterly ludicrous, or an interesting villain for the party to encounter, someone who has protected these woods for centuries, through bloodshed and 'Wild Hunts,' in his antlered helmet astride his red-eyed steed.

Like Bram Stoker's Dracula, he commands the elements of the natural world, calling up storms and pulling down the lightning from the howling night sky, and pitting the natural beasts of the world against those who come against him, changing his very form to become more beast than man, stalking in the form of the wolf, or soaring in the form of the bat.

Indeed, Dracula, with his weather control, animal control and shapeshifting into animal forms, seems like a natural to have some druid levels!

Now there's a cool image. I have to spread exp around before giving it to you again.

That is rather like Hircine the hunter from Morrowind, who was himself a version of Orion the hunter from Greek mythology.

 

[Herschel]

So what?

It's my story.

I don't have to do things the same way they do.

And my question is why try to find some sort of "logic" in the character concept when there really is none. It's a FRPG, hand-wave the logic portion if the character itself is cool enough. As long as the character isn't some broken stat/feat/ability combination, just let it fly.

 

[Herschel]

Nope, just the opinion of a GM who doesn't dislike his players. If one of them has a neat idea, and no rules contradict it, and it's not terribly unbalancing, why the hell would I oppose it?

It's not opposing it that's the issue, it's the claim of some sort of "logic" behind the concept. Hand wave the logic if the concept is cool enough and not unbalanced, it's a FRPG. Just quit trying to twist things to justify it. There's no reason. It's a one-off. Treat it as such and have fun with it.

And what does liking or disliking one's players have to do with anything? I would hope every DM likes the players at their table, otherwise why do it?

 

[jonesy]

It's not opposing it that's the issue, it's the claim of some sort of "logic" behind the concept.

You are saying logic is a reason not to do it? Where would you apply it?

The topic is about druids and vampires. The former is a mostly unknown quantity, and made up from broken histories. The latter is a creature of fantasy, partly based on eastern european superstitions (which are partly based on real conditions like porphyria and hemophilia, maybe) and also collections of broken histories.

 

[Diamond Cross]

It's not opposing it that's the issue, it's the claim of some sort of "logic" behind the concept.

I never claimed anything about logic. In fact, at least when it comes to telling stories, I've become extremely resistant to logic. To me if it's a good story, regardless of it being illogical, it's a story that should be told.

I'm not a big believer in logic anyway, because it really just becomes another form of one true wayism, and becomes, in many cases, as stifling as religion. Especially among people who are not creative, they place too much value on logic.

It's very easy to be critical anyway. There's always a way to find something that's wrong with some sort of creative concept.

When it comes to creativity, one should just go with their instincts and what looks good.

But to a point. There is such a thing as too glaring of an error that ruins a concept. Such as Indiana Jones IV. That damnable refrigeration scene pretty much killed the movie. There is absolutely no way he could've survived the nuclear explosion in the first place let alone being thrown a few miles. The heat of the blast alone would've melted the refrigerator. He was killed so many times in that scene it's pathetic.

That's what I mean by too glaring of an error.

Anything else is just being nitpicky, and I don't do that either.

 

[Diamond Cross]

grrrr... double post

 

[gamerprinter]

While the idea of a vampiric druid may seem abhorrent to some, with the understanding that's its for a game so just 'hand-wave it' allowed might work for some. I think coming up with a little story/logic to help 'explain' it is OK, because it helps build the suspension of disbelief, so the idea is acceptable to the general gaming group.

While I don't require true logic, I like to see links to ideas that 'justify' the change or allowance for a given game.

Hand-waving degrades the suspension of disbelief for me, so I need the 'logic' to build a better story.

GP