Pathfinder 2E A few short thoughts on play of the Absalom Initiation

[MerricB]

I had the chance to play (not GM!) part of the Absalom Initiation recently, the first of the PFS scenarios.

While I generally enjoyed it - and we didn't get into any big fights so I couldn't really tell you how the combat rules work in detail - there were a couple of irritations.

The first was that I rolled relatively poorly, and so even with skills that I'd invested in, I couldn't succeed. Trying to hit DC 15 is very difficult for tasks you should be good at. (The tasks that were DC 20... huh?) If you were just an average character, you'd be failing those DC 15 checks. And I was feeling that these were things we should be succeeding at.

The second was I got hit by stupefied from one monster. Which meant, for the rest of the session, my Wizard had a 25% chance of failing to cast any spell - and there was no way of removing it. In certain situations, this is the sort of thing that would make me walk out and never bother with the game again. It still bothers me. (It required me to critically fail a save, so my dice luck was amazingly poor for most of the session.)

At least my electric arc cantrip worked - and with a critical hit dealing 2d4+8 damage, I did feel I accomplished at least one thing.

But I'm still rather concerned at the DCs.

Cheers!

 

[JeffB]

Hmm..

From the PF2SRD- Did the GM get it right? And there was no way to remove the condition ? What creature? A befuddle spell lasts only one round if it was that.

Stupefied

Your thoughts and instincts are clouded. Stupefied always includes a value. You take a status penalty equal to this value on Intelligence -, Wisdom -, and Charisma-based checks and DCs, including Will saving throws, spell attack rolls, spell DCs, and skill checks that use these ability scores. Any time you attempt to Cast a Spell while stupefied, the spell is disrupted unless you succeed at a flat check with a DC equal to 5 + your stupefied value.

 

[Derren]

I had the chance to play (not GM!) part of the Absalom Initiation recently, the first of the PFS scenarios.

While I generally enjoyed it - and we didn't get into any big fights so I couldn't really tell you how the combat rules work in detail - there were a couple of irritations.

The first was that I rolled relatively poorly, and so even with skills that I'd invested in, I couldn't succeed. Trying to hit DC 15 is very difficult for tasks you should be good at. (The tasks that were DC 20... huh?) If you were just an average character, you'd be failing those DC 15 checks. And I was feeling that these were things we should be succeeding at.

The second was I got hit by stupefied from one monster. Which meant, for the rest of the session, my Wizard had a 25% chance of failing to cast any spell - and there was no way of removing it. In certain situations, this is the sort of thing that would make me walk out and never bother with the game again. It still bothers me. (It required me to critically fail a save, so my dice luck was amazingly poor for most of the session.)

At least my electric arc cantrip worked - and with a critical hit dealing 2d4+8 damage, I did feel I accomplished at least one thing.

But I'm still rather concerned at the DCs.

Cheers!

So whats your expectation? That you always succeed despite poor rolls?

 

[MerricB]

Hmm..

From the PF2SRD- Did the GM get it right? And there was no way to remove the condition ? What creature? A befuddle spell lasts only one round if it was that.

Stupefied

Your thoughts and instincts are clouded. Stupefied always includes a value. You take a status penalty equal to this value on Intelligence -, Wisdom -, and Charisma-based checks and DCs, including Will saving throws, spell attack rolls, spell DCs, and skill checks that use these ability scores. Any time you attempt to Cast a Spell while stupefied, the spell is disrupted unless you succeed at a flat check with a DC equal to 5 + your stupefied value.

Cacodaemon. It’s a disease, I think, (though not described as such by the DM) and various things went badly. Probably could have used a spell to get rid of it, but first level poor adventurers.

 

[MerricB]

So whats your expectation? That you always succeed despite poor rolls?

No, but I get a bit worried about rolls with high failure chances, especially when they’re key to the success of the adventure.

 

[Derren]

No, but I get a bit worried about rolls with high failure chances, especially when they’re key to the success of the adventure.

Whats your definition of high failure chance?

 

[MerricB]

Whats your definition of high failure chance?

if a skilled character has a 50% failure chance, and unskilled even more, that’s high.

 

[CapnZapp]

Glad you got a chance at testing out Pathfinder 12, Merric!

if a skilled character has a 50% failure chance, and unskilled even more, that’s high.

A PF2 character can easily have a 50% failure rate even skilled against a dangerous threat. And yes, Paizo devs actually do pitch level 1 heroes against DC 20 checks! This would be a problem if the adventure hinges on success. But mostly you just try again.

Cacodaemons may be only level 1 critters, but that doesn't mean they don't pack a punch. You were likely inflicted with stage 2 cacodaemonia, which means stupefied (1 day). One day could mean "the rest of the adventure" or it could mean "once the fight's over, we sleep, and boom - condition gone".

Do note it does mean two failed saves (or one crit fail) - so by PF2's line of thinking you kind of deserved it. Even if making a DC 17 Fortitude save can be a mighty high hill to climb for a level 1 Wizard. (What was your Fort Save? +3? )

You sure aren't playing in the 5E kindergarten any more

Edit: stupid mistake

 

[dave2008]

Cacodaemon. It’s a disease, I think, (though not described as such by the DM) and various things went badly. Probably could have used a spell to get rid of it, but first level poor adventurers.

Yep, stupefied for a whole day. That is harsh.

 

[CapnZapp]

Poison and disease can spell certain doom to 1st level heroes. Spells that help are 2nd level (at least). Generous GMs let heroes find help in the form of the local village priest, or somesuch, but this is of course not something you can take for granted.

About the only things a 1st level party can do is use Medicine (the skill) or drink an Elixir of Life. And all that gives you is a +1 bonus. The probability of a low-Con character (such as a Wizard) surviving is still slim. Welcome to the harsh and brutal world of not-5th Edition gaming*.

*) 5th edition has ruined today's gamers, who know nothing of 1d4 hit point Wizards or what a "save or die" roll means. Now get off my lawn!

By this I mean there's no point in me defending PF2. It is what it is. Personally, I find it refreshing. Then again, I'm the GM, so I can't die...