A fix for Sure Strike

[generalhenry]

....

 

[Nifft]

I think sure strike is decent. 1[W] damage includes magic bonuses, feat bonuses etc, so it could be better than just going with a reaping strike.

People have run the numbers for all the basic attacks against level-appropriate foes, and Sure Strike (et al.) are consistently the worst performers, for nearly any situation.

It's almost never a good idea to use it.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Stalker0]

so long as it's move action or less, every one with access to it will take it. There are too many times when it will be a free +2 to hit.

Well its not free. As others have noted, move actions are still precious in the game. Second, you lose damage when you use it. And of course you are given up other at-will powers you could take, and I think all 3 of the other fighter powers are pretty useful.

I could see adding the clause about the next melee attack you make in the round, just so someone can't "charge up" SS for the next round, though I don't know if that's actually a problem.

Good to see a lot of feedback about this idea, one way or the other.

 

[Stalker0]

all at wills are standard actions.

But there's nothing that says they have to be. I guarantee you that as splatbooks come out, you will start to see the mold broken more and more. In order to create new and varied powers, you have to use any variable you have, and the action type is just as good as any. That doesn't make the new powers broken, just different.

 

[erik_the_guy]

People have run the numbers for all the basic attacks against level-appropriate foes, and Sure Strike (et al.) are consistently the worst performers, for nearly any situation.

It's almost never a good idea to use it.

Cheers, -- N

Ah, I see. Well in any case I think the power recommended above is still a little strong.

 

[Anthony Jackson]

Here's a simpler way that balances Sure Strike fairly well: just add strength to damage normally. Let HC = hit chance, W = average weapon damage, E = enhancement bonus, S = Str bonus
Reaping Strike, 1H: HC*(W+E+S) + (1-HC)*S*0.5
Reaping Strike, 2H: HC*(W+E+S) + (1-HC)*S
Sure Strike,1H: HC*(W+E+S) + (0.1)*(W+E+S)

If we assume starting Str of 18 and 60% hit chance, at level 1 reaping strike adds 0.8 to average damage, at level 26 (Str 26) it adds 1.6 to avg damage. Thus, at level 1, if (W+E+S) > 8, sure strike is superior against a typical target. As a typical value for W+E+S is 8.5, we're good. At level 26, if (W+E+S) > 16, sure strike wins; a typical value is 25, so again, sure strike is worth it.

However, against targets with very high armor (hit chance <40%) reaping strike wins, and reaping strike pretty much always wins with two handed weapons. That seems balanced; it's not a slam dunk for either power.

Now, careful attack is more complicated, because we have to deal with comparisons to twin strike and account for hunter's quarry, but on average adding Str/Dex to careful attack will be marginally weaker than twin strike.

 

[Exen Trik]

Another option is to keep its strength as is, but let it be used for basic attacks and opportunity attacks.

 

[erik_the_guy]

Here's a simpler way that balances Sure Strike fairly well: just add strength to damage normally. Let HC = hit chance, W = average weapon damage, E = enhancement bonus, S = Str bonus
Reaping Strike, 1H: HC*(W+E+S) + (1-HC)*S*0.5
Reaping Strike, 2H: HC*(W+E+S) + (1-HC)*S
Sure Strike,1H: HC*(W+E+S) + (0.1)*(W+E+S)

If we assume starting Str of 18 and 60% hit chance, at level 1 reaping strike adds 0.8 to average damage, at level 26 (Str 26) it adds 1.6 to avg damage. Thus, at level 1, if (W+E+S) > 8, sure strike is superior against a typical target. As a typical value for W+E+S is 8.5, we're good. At level 26, if (W+E+S) > 16, sure strike wins; a typical value is 25, so again, sure strike is worth it.

However, against targets with very high armor (hit chance <40%) reaping strike wins, and reaping strike pretty much always wins with two handed weapons. That seems balanced; it's not a slam dunk for either power.

Now, careful attack is more complicated, because we have to deal with comparisons to twin strike and account for hunter's quarry, but on average adding Str/Dex to careful attack will be marginally weaker than twin strike.

I like it. The math is good and its not imbalanced. Basically one of the fighters at-wills is a melee basic with +2 to hit. Although a +2 bonus to hit is a very good modifier, it is not imbalanced when applied to such a weak attack.

 

[generalhenry]

I guarantee you that as splatbooks come out, you will start to see the mold broken more and more.

Not for something with better solutions.

A. buff sure strike without changing the action type
B. make it a move action, but as class feature

 

[keterys]

Another option: Make Sure Strike a basic attack

That makes it work well for opportunity attacks to stop movement at a minimum, and charges against minions

Anyhow, Stalker, your option is a cool idea but it should not be a level at-will _attack_ power. Utility? Sure... Class Feature? Better.