A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life

[Maxperson]

There isn't such a class ability, at least in 5e. Legend Lore exists only as a spell in 5e. I believe that it was a bard ability in 1e, which forms the framework for [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]'s modus operandi, but I am not sufficiently knowledgeable enough to answer how it operates in 1e.

Yes, I know there isn't that ability for 5e Bards, which is why I went back to 5e. I completely forgot about 1e Bards, because I refused to ever play one. Not that I played 3e Bards, but I had players that did. I feel about bards the way [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] feels about Paladins.

 

[jonesy]

For instance, nothing in the 4e rules say that everything the PC knows comes from the GM. Nor does anything imply such a thing. If I as a player know that trolls are allergic to fire, and I want to play a PC who knows this, then nothing in the 4e rules precludes me from playing a PC with that knowledge, nor - as per the bit on background that I quo

It's been some time since I've read the 4th edition rules, but I'm pretty sure that every edition of D&D has dungeon masters discretion written in. The player can't write up whatever they want into their characters backstory without talking about it with the DM first, yes? Otherwise what's to stop someone from making their character a former best friend of the BBEG's and by being that already knowing some portion of the BBEG's plans? I know that knowing that trolls don't like fire seems like common knowledge, and is quite a bit smaller issue than that, but is it really and wouldn't you still need to talk to the DM about it?

 

[Numidius]

The 4e DMG tells you to discourage metagame thinking and says players get more enjoyment when they don't engage in it. It also tells you to be sure that the explorer player type doesn't use his knowledge of the game world to his advantage.

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
George Orwell, 1984

 

[Maxperson]

It's been some time since I've read the 4th edition rules, but I'm pretty sure that every edition of D&D has dungeon masters discretion written in. The player can't write up whatever they want into their characters backstory without talking about it with the DM first, yes? Otherwise what's to stop someone from making their character a former best friend of the BBEG's and by being that already knowing some portion of the BBEG's plans? I know that knowing that trolls don't like fire seems like common knowledge, and is quite a bit smaller issue than that, but is it really and wouldn't you still need to talk to the DM about it?

[MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] enjoys a certain style of play, which is fine. What he does, though, is instead of admitting that he's house ruling something, he tries to use weak justifications to "show" that the game is supporting his playstyle in ways that it really isn't. 4e explicitly says to discourage metagaming, not to let players use knowledge of the game world to their advantage, and gives the players knowledge skills explicitly designed to be the vehicle to finding out monster knowledge of weaknesses and such. Yet because 4e doesn't have the words, "PCs only get knowledge of monsters from knowledge skills" or something similar, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] is using that as "proof" that 4e allows metagame knowledge of monsters and only rolls those skills when the player doesn't know.

 

[sd_jasper]

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
George Orwell, 1984

What are you trying to say here? What contradictory beliefs?

Or are you implying that acting is an imposable skill, because the actor playing Sherlock couldn't act like he didn't already know who committed the crime?

 

[Numidius]

It's been some time since I've read the 4th edition rules, but I'm pretty sure that every edition of D&D has dungeon masters discretion written in. The player can't write up whatever they want into their characters backstory without talking about it with the DM first, yes? Otherwise what's to stop someone from making their character a former best friend of the BBEG's and by being that already knowing some portion of the BBEG's plans? I know that knowing that trolls don't like fire seems like common knowledge, and is quite a bit smaller issue than that, but is it really and wouldn't you still need to talk to the DM about it?

I guess it depends if the BBEG plans are widely obvious in the setting, or they are inside the Gm notes.

I'd say go with DW's Discern Reality Move to find out (risking an unexpected twist in case of failure) or with any Strategy skill check.

If the game involves high level Pcs deeply rooted in the setting, why not having a new hi-lev Pc being the Good Twin/Brother/Former Comrade of the Evil Boss? I mean, what's the problem?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Maxperson]

I guess it depends if the BBEG plans are widely obvious in the setting, or they are inside the Gm notes.

I'd say go with DW's Discern Reality Move to find out (risking an unexpected twist in case of failure) or with any Strategy skill check.

If the game involves high level Pcs deeply rooted in the setting, why not having a new hi-lev Pc being the Good Twin/Brother/Former Comrade of the Evil Boss? I mean, what's the problem?

He did specify D&D, though. Bringing in DW's Discern Reality Move is fine, but it's a house rule to do that. You're altering the game at that point.

As far as whether the PC could be the brother/comrade/twin of the BBEG, that could work out, but it would need the DM's approval for it to happen. Players cannot just decide that it happens unless you've altered the game to be more player facing.

 

[Maxperson]

You sure about that? I mean, that's a fairly high bar.

My hatred of Paladins is the fuel that warms the cold, dark cockles of my heart. I hate Paladins like a young child loves Christmas morning.

I only drink to separate my knowledge of the existence of Paladins from my consciousness.

Heh. Pretty close. I loathe bards. "Look, it's a dragon! I know, let me sing a little ditty so that our ashes are a little coarser after the save!"

 

[Numidius]

He did specify D&D, though. Bringing in DW's Discern Reality Move is fine, but it's a house rule to do that. You're altering the game at that point.

As far as whether the PC could be the brother/comrade/twin of the BBEG, that could work out, but it would need the DM's approval for it to happen. Players cannot just decide that it happens unless you've altered the game to be more player facing.

Of course