hawkeyefan
Legend
I wasn't missing anything. I was acknowledging the scenario you presented, and then applying it to a different scenario that involved player signaling. So to make things easier, let's accept that I understand that the players in your example are signaling that they don't want to pretend.
In my example, the players were signaling that they don't want to be surprised by monster strengths and weaknesses. So then, if the DM says, "too bad, you can't know about the unknown strengths and weaknesses until something happens that clues you in, the DM would also be being a bit of a jerk, no? This is also about the players being able to have input in some where on where the game goes and how it's played.
In both examples the players are signaling their desire. So in both examples the DM ignoring the players' signals would result in the DM being a jerk, right?
No because there is a meaningful difference between asking to not have to pretend to not know what you know and demanding that the DM tell you everything you don’t know.
Now, having said that, I do think that playing with all monster stats, including vulnerabilities, being known is a perfectly valid way to play. If this is what the players want to do, then they certainly should let the DM know and they should all discuss it and figure out how to proceed.
But this is an order of magnitude different from not wanting to be forced to play the guessing game RE trolls and fire.
That's the way D&D is played. At least if you are following the rules and intent of the game. Is that problematic for some? Sure. They can change it very easily to suit their needs, though.
Yes. This is how D&D is played. Two things on that.
First, some folks don’t like that and so they criticize it and mention other systems or methods. But you always return to D&D as the basis for your points.
Second, changing D&D is precisely how this conversation started. A poster asked how to make some elements of the fiction require less DM authority.
We are discussing various systems and methods, so always reverting to the default expectations (which also are sometimes vaguely defined and may vary) seems odd.
Absolutely. But it's not about whether it can run perfectly fine with the DM having that kind of authority. It's about whether the players enjoy that sort of game. If they do, then great. If not, they either need to change the game or find a different one.
It’s about what the system does and what the participants are hoping to get out of it. A mismatch in those is where a problem occurs. So a change to the system or even to a new game may be in order. Or else a shift in expectations by the participants might be necessary.