D&D General A History of Violence: Killing in D&D

[Guest 85555]

maybe violence is not the best choice always or anytime, but it's sure fastest and most efficient most of the time.

Also a film having violence, doesn't necessarily mean support for violence. On screen violence is exciting and can even become visual poetry. I am pretty much a pacifist but I love violent movies

 

[Remathilis]

@Remathilis

You're post reminded me about quote from Starship Troopers

"When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived." Or to phrase it simply "Might makes right". And d&d characters, specially 5e ones, are sure mighty.

Starship Troopers isn't a parody of jingoism for nothing!

I won't go too much farther since I got my wrist slapped already, but my concern is that few people actually consider the implications of an adventurer class of mercenaries having carte blanche on the use of violence to solve societal ills. Things that in the real world would be unacceptable are the norm. I don't know how to solve that disconnect, but I feel "it's just a game" is burying your head in the sand about it. Like issues about slavery and biodeterminism, it's an uncomfortable discussion we won't have until it's thrust in our faces by others and we can no longer avoid it.

 

[Guest 85555]

I won't go too much farther since I got my wrist slapped already, but my concern is that few people actually consider the implications of an adventurer class of mercenaries having carte blanche on the use of violence to solve societal ills. Things that in the real world would be unacceptable are the norm. I don't know how to solve that disconnect, but I feel "it's just a game" is burying your head in the sand about it. Like issues about slavery and biodeterminism, it's an uncomfortable discussion we won't have until it's thrust in our faces by others and we can no longer avoid it.

I guess we could make the game even more boring if we wanted to by taking out the violence or constraining it. Sometimes you just need to accept this is a past time, people are having fun, they aren't harming or fixing the world through it (fixing the world is hard and requires a lot more than adjusting tropes in a game)

 

[MGibster]

If the parody is the same, is it still a parody?

Since Airplane! (1980) is both a parody of and a good example of a disaster movie, I'm going to say yes. Very often a good parody is also a good example of the genre it's poking fun of. Galaxy Quest, Futurama, John Scalzi's Redshirts, and Rick & Morty are all parodies and they're decent science fiction as well. I suspect very often someone who makes a good parody of a genre actually loves that genre. Munchkin pokes fun at D&D style fantasy gaming but it does so from a place of love. You must face the gazebo alone. Paranoia is a parody of dystopian science fiction and it's pretty good dystopian science fiction in its own right.

But why are the bandits/goblins/orcs attacking people? Just doing it for the evulz? Or is it because the expansion of so-called civilization has pushed them away from their traditional lands into lands of less abundance, and they both want their original lands back and need to raid to feed their families?

Ultimately who cares? For me, D&D is not a game where I think deep thoughts. That's not a dig against D&D, I just ask those questions in other games. The orcs/bandits/goblins are attacking because people have stuff they want. It's pretty simple.

 

[Guest 85555]

Since Airplane! (1980) is both a parody of and a good example of a disaster movie, I'm going to say yes.

Speaking of airplane and violence:


I have watched this scene a bunch of times looking for holes and I have to say, I see no sign of a stunt double and Robert Stack looks pretty impressive pulling off these moves

 

[Horwath]

Ever since the World Wars, we have had rules about engagement in conflict that supposedly stop things like the slaughter of enemy combatants in non-hostile situations (such as surrendered or retreating foes), the claiming of spoils of war, and the use of violence on non-combatant civilian populations.

And D&D, in its most famous form, is a group of mercenaries entering an enemy camp, slaughtering every man, woman and child, and claiming their treasure. In the real world, any group who did this would be in the Hague. (Well, should be. Without getting into RW politics, the enforcement of war crime laws is not exactly stellar). Then again, there is probably a reason why WotC has updated two dozen different classic modules to 5e but KotB isn't among them.

All true except attacking retreating foes.

Retreating soldiers are legitimate targets.

 

[Remathilis]

I guess we could make the game even more boring if we wanted to by taking out the violence or constraining it. Sometimes you just need to accept this is a past time, people are having fun, they aren't harming or fixing the world through it (fixing the world is hard and requires a lot more than adjusting tropes in a game)

That's the thing, I don't have the answer. There is no solution I can think of. I just know that one day there is going to be a reckoning on it like there has been on evil humanoids or slavery, and I hope people have enough time to figure out how to thread that needle.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Starship Troopers isn't a parody of jingoism for nothing!

I won't go too much farther since I got my wrist slapped already, but my concern is that few people actually consider the implications of an adventurer class of mercenaries having carte blanche on the use of violence to solve societal ills. Things that in the real world would be unacceptable are the norm. I don't know how to solve that disconnect, but I feel "it's just a game" is burying your head in the sand about it. Like issues about slavery and biodeterminism, it's an uncomfortable discussion we won't have until it's thrust in our faces by others and we can no longer avoid it.

See, to me it is just a game, like a movie is just a movie or a book is just a book. Fiction and non-fiction are different, and I'm not really interested in judging fiction by non-fictional standards of morality and taste in any sense larger than the personal preference of me and mine.

 

[GrimCo]

@Remathilis

Because adventurers operate outside of society. One of defining traits of modern states is their sole monopoly on violence. But in typical d&d adventure, you venture outside of civilization, you are on the fringes. Wild frontier and frontier justice. There isn't state with it's institutions to take care of troubles. That's where adventurers come into play. Yes, d&d is Wild West in quasi medieval setting. You're heroes are lone gunmen seeking justice, defending good folk etc. D&D sure takes lot's of tropes from old westerns.

But, to be fair, personally, i try to not go into too deep on moral philosophy in games. It's boring. In games, we kick ass, chew bubblegum and ask questions never. It is fun make pretend game with decent small unit tactical combat part.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's the thing, I don't have the answer. There is no solution I can think of. I just know that one day there is going to be a reckoning on it like there has been on evil humanoids or slavery, and I hope people have enough time to figure out how to thread that needle.

Save your books before that happens!