D&D 5E A Homebrew Cleric Cantrip discussion

[Chaosmancer]

In my ongoing project of compiling all my various homebrew notes (I've been at it a month and feel only about half-way done T_T ) I came across this cantrip. To give credit, this is from a document by someone named Vin.

Blessed Weapon
transmutation cantrip

Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: self
Components: V, S, M (a sprinkle of holy water and a melee weapon)
Duration: 1 minute
The melee weapon you are holding becomes infused with holy energy. The weapon sheds a bright light in a 10 foot radius and dim light for another 10 feet, and becomes magical, if it isn't already. The weapon loses this enchantment if it leaves your grasp.


Now, my first reaction was "Woah, this is cool. This is a cantrip for melee weapon clerics."

But then... I started thinking about it more. Clerics do not get many cantrips, and is getting a magical weapon really worth it for levels 1-4? Because, you'd want them to pick cantrips that are going to be staples, and if you wanted to just make your weapon a torch, Light does that better. And at early levels, magical weapons aren't helpful.

Then, thinking about later levels. You could chose to take Blessed Strikes instead of Divine Strike, and get Toll of the Dead for 2d12+1d8 (17.5) instead of using this for between 1d6+1d8+strength or 2d8+strength (11 to 12?) and you still get magical damage.

So, I guess this is a multi-step question. Are Melee weapon clerics terribly useful? Does this Cantrip seem useful? If you were to buff this cantrip, how would you do it to make it competitive with existing options to use cantrips?

 

[Laurefindel]

It's a non-concentration spell that lasts 1 minute, so there's that. It makes the weapon magical, which is nice since most spell/abilities that make a weapon magical for the purpose of damage reduction don't come online before level 5. The question is; do you encounter many creatures with damage reduction that cannot already be bypassed by radiant or necrotic damage*? If the answer is yes, than it's a life saver. If not, it's probably a waste.

*assuming you are a melee-oriented cleric

 

[aco175]

Is this better or worse than this spell

Shillelagh​

LEVEL Cantrip
CASTING TIME 1 Bonus Action
RANGE/AREA Touch
COMPONENTS V, S, M *
DURATION 1 Minute
SCHOOL Transmutation

The wood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature's power. For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using that weapon, and the weapon's damage die becomes a d8. The weapon also becomes magical, if it isn't already. The spell ends if you cast it again or if you let go of the weapon.
* - (mistletoe, a shamrock leaf, and a club or quarterstaff)

Seems worse since it still uses your strength instead of Wisdom.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Is this better or worse than this spell

Shillelagh​

LEVEL Cantrip
CASTING TIME 1 Bonus Action
RANGE/AREA Touch
COMPONENTS V, S, M *
DURATION 1 Minute
SCHOOL Transmutation

The wood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature's power. For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using that weapon, and the weapon's damage die becomes a d8. The weapon also becomes magical, if it isn't already. The spell ends if you cast it again or if you let go of the weapon.
* - (mistletoe, a shamrock leaf, and a club or quarterstaff)

Seems worse since it still uses your strength instead of Wisdom.

Yeah, plus Shillelagh actually increases the damage done, since you cast it on a staff usually which is a 1d6 one-handed.

So, we seem in agreement that it isn't quite good enough (@Laurefindel as well) so.... I will say, I don't want to just make it Shillelagh. Clerics already try and get it for the wisdom in melee, and I kind of want this for War Clerics who are going to be using martial weapons. I don't want "shillelagh but all weapons" because then Druid's feel bad, so... what's a good way of augmenting this cantrip without stepping on a variety of toes?

Maybe letting you add your prof mod to the weapon damage? Starts off powerful, but scales down.

 

[jgsugden]

I'd make it something more along the lines of Booming Blade. Perhaps something like this:

Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: self
Components: V, S, M (a sprinkle of holy water and a melee weapon)
Duration: 1 minute

The melee weapon you are holding becomes infused with holy energy. The weapon sheds a bright light in a 10 foot radius and dim light for another 10 feet, and becomes magical, if it isn't already. The weapon loses this enchantment if it leaves your grasp. Instead of the normal damage, you may choose to have the weapon deal 1d8 radiant damage. When it does so, you may add your strength or dexterity ability bonus, as appropriate, to the damage.

This spell’s optional damage increases when you reach certain levels. At 5th level, when the caster elects to use the optional damage, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 radiant (to 2d8 radiant) damage to a target on a hit and increase by 1d8 at 11th level (to 3d8 radiant) and again at 17th level (to 4d8 radiant).

 

[Laurefindel]

Yeah, plus Shillelagh actually increases the damage done, since you cast it on a staff usually which is a 1d6 one-handed.

So, we seem in agreement that it isn't quite good enough (@Laurefindel as well) so.... I will say, I don't want to just make it Shillelagh. Clerics already try and get it for the wisdom in melee, and I kind of want this for War Clerics who are going to be using martial weapons. I don't want "shillelagh but all weapons" because then Druid's feel bad, so... what's a good way of augmenting this cantrip without stepping on a variety of toes?

Maybe letting you add your prof mod to the weapon damage? Starts off powerful, but scales down.

Shillelagh is a druid cantrip, and signature one at that. Cleric having their own, slightly worse, version is fine by me. Actually, in context, this would become the only combat cantrip based on an attack roll for cleric; both toll the dead and sacred flame are save-based. Against high wisdom targets; cleric is out of luck (as far as cantrips go). magical damage is nice but niche; what it needs is another rider. Something like...

The melee weapon you are holding becomes infused with holy energy. The weapon sheds a bright light in a 10 foot radius and dim light for another 10 feet, and becomes magical, if it isn't already. On a hit, the target object or creature sheds dim light in a 10-foot radius and suffer disadvantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks. In addition, and the affected creature or object can’t benefit from being invisible for the duration of the spell.

This may be an over-correction toward too good however.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I think letting it deal radiant damage and adding an extra d8 radiant (d12 for a 2 hander) at 5/11/17 would bring it in line. KISS and all.

It would basically be "toll the dead" that gives up its first damage die for weapon damage. The extra investment in an attack stat and the melee requirement should let it at least match toll's damage.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Are Melee weapon clerics terribly useful?

Unfortunately, no, IMO.

By the time Domains with Divine Smite come online, cantrips are already 2dX damage, and will continue to grow faster than Divine Smite (which increases again at 14th compared to cantrips at 11th).

Now, Potent Spellcasting helps more since otherwise you don't add an ability modifier to damage with cantrips. But, of course, you do add them to weapon attacks. However, most often the Wisdom modifier will be better than Strength or Dexterity for weapon attacks.

It isn't to say melee weapons can't be useful, but IMO certainly aren't "terribly" without help!

Does this Cantrip seem useful?

Since cantrip damage is better at higher levels, maybe not. However, since few games reach tiers 3 and 4 I could see this being useful for a PC cleric who wants to wield weapons. Also, with cantrip-swapping now via Cantrip Versatility, if it ever does become useless, you can change it out later.

If you were to buff this cantrip, how would you do it to make it competitive with existing options to use cantrips?

I don't think it needs a buff, but if I did buff it I would make it a weapon you touch, so others could benefit even if you don't. That would set it apart from cantrips like Shillelagh.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Yeah, I'd go with the equivalent of blade cantrips. It still requires pumping a physical stats, but it make the weapon cleric a little more worthwhile.

take inspiration from the cleric at-wills of 4e if you need to.

 

[Chaosmancer]

So, taking @jgsugden 's approach, maybe something like this?

Blessed Weapon
transmutation cantrip

Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (a sprinkle of holy water and a melee weapon)
Duration: 1 minute
The melee weapon you are holding becomes infused with holy energy. The weapon sheds a bright light in a 10 foot radius and dim light for another 10 feet, and becomes magical, if it isn't already. The weapon loses this enchantment if it leaves your grasp.

When you make a melee attack with this weapon, you can choose to deal 1d8 radiant damage instead of the weapon's normal damage dice.

At 5th level, the weapon does an additional 1d8 radiant damage (2d8 optional) and increases to 2d8 (3d8 optional) at level 11 and 3d8 (4d8 optional) at level 17.


///

I could see making it range touch, @DND_Reborn , but I'm afraid doing that would just lead to them casting it on the fighter, instead of the cleric using it on themselves.