AD&D 1E A Long Thread about the Weapon's vs. AC Table


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I'm curious what you think the benefit to gameplay is. That it encourages more variation in weapon choices? That it creates interesting tactical choices in combat? Or is it just "more realistic" and that in itself is a good thing?
 

I'm curious what you think the benefit to gameplay is. That it encourages more variation in weapon choices? That it creates interesting tactical choices in combat? Or is it just "more realistic" and that in itself is a good thing?

If you'd asked me circa 1990 I probably would have said that being more realistic was in itself a good thing, but I probably wouldn't have understood what I meant by "realistic" at the time.

Now I'd say that what I meant by that is that reality is messy and complex and filled with tradeoffs, and that was inherently more interesting than just look down a list and picking the thing that gave you the most damage versus large sized creatures. It's also more interesting as a world to GM, because you have a reason why you might give the BBEG a mace rather than a longsword and he's not necessarily being sub-optimal by taking a mace. There is more to the choice than just flavor.

The first time someone switches from a sword to a pick or flail because the smaller damage dice is mitigated by better chance to hit, I personally feel it's worth it for game play, above and beyond the historian nerds in me going, "In the real world, real knights carried maces and flails as well as swords." Sure, I like the aesthetics of a game world that looks like I imagine the past to look like, but I do think there is more to it than that.

UPDATE: Thinking more on this, it feels like, "Why is everyone talking so much about the trial by combat in "Knight of the Seven Kingdoms?" Is it just "more realistic" and that in itself is a good thing?"

And the answer is of course, "No. It's a fantasy story. The "realism" such as it is is not the point. The point is that it requires someone with a very high understanding of historical European martial arts and weaponry to create the sort of varied and rich cinematography that went into that scene, and that felt really fresh to the audience because it was a lot more satisfying than just the hero swings his hero sword and we are supposed to imagine from the stunt doubles response that he just chopped through plate armor somehow."

And my answer to your question is, "This is part of a comprehensive approach to combat that forces tactical choices on the players and GM alike, so that if the fighter is beset by wild dogs I as the GM have to come with some believable way those dogs are still a threat to a juggernaut clad in steel beyond just saying, "roll... 16, it's a hit, take roll 3 points of damage."
 
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Some of Monster Manual I worked out as "to hit" tables applying the above assumptions. I may do more if people are interested and ask questions, or if the project continues to prove instructional to myself.


Monster

Weapon Name

Damage

Weapon Type

10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
0
Aerial Servant
Slam

4-16

Bardiche

1
1
1
1
3
5
6
8
9
11
13
Ankeg
Mandibles

3-18

Sword, Broad

5
7
8
9
11
12
14
16
18
20
22
Ankeg
Mandibles

3-18

Sword, Broad

4
6
7
8
10
11
13
15
17
19
21
Ankeg
Mandibles

3-18

Sword, Broad

4
6
7
8
10
11
13
15
17
19
21
Ankeg
Mandibles

3-18

Sword, Broad

3
5
6
7
9
10
12
14
16
18
20
Ant, Giant
Mandibles

1-6

Dagger

4
7
8
10
11
14
15
17
18
20
21
Ape, GorillaSlam1-3Club
5
7
8
10
11
13
15
17
18
20
22
Bite1-6Dagger
3
6
7
9
10
13
14
16
17
19
20
Improvised Club
1-6+7

Club

9
11
12
14
15
17
19
21
22
24
26
Thrown Rock
1-2+4

Rock, Large

11
12
14
15
16
18
20
22
24
26
29
Ape, Carnivorous
Slam

1-4

Club

5
7
8
10
11
13
15
17
18
20
22
Bite
1-8

Dagger

3
6
7
9
10
13
14
16
17
19
20
Improvised Club
9-14

Club

8
10
11
13
14
16
18
20
21
23
25
Thrown Rock
5-6

Rock

11
12
14
15
16
18
20
23
25
27
29
Axebeak
Talons

1-3

Dagger

4
7
8
10
11
14
15
17
18
20
21
Beak
2-8

Axe, Battle

5
7
8
10
11
13
14
16
17
19
20
Baboon
Bite

1-4

Dagger

5
8
9
11
12
15
16
18
19
21
22
Badger
Claw

1-2

Knife

5
8
9
11
13
15
17
19
21
22
24
Bite
1-3

Fist or Open Hand

6
8
11
12
13
14
17
20
23
25
27
Badger, Giant
Claw

1-3

Dagger

4
7
8
10
11
14
15
17
18
20
21
Bite
1-6

Dagger

4
7
8
10
11
14
15
17
18
20
21
Baluchitherium
Stomp

5-20

Flail, Footman's

2
1
2
3
4
4
6
7
7
7
8
Baracuda
Bite

3-18

Fist or Open Hand

7
9
12
13
14
15
18
21
24
26
28
Baracuda
Bite

3-18

Knife

4
7
8
10
12
14
16
18
20
21
23
Baracuda
Bite

3-18

Dagger

4
7
8
10
11
14
15
17
18
20
21
Basilisk
Bite

1-10

Dagger

2
5
6
8
9
12
13
15
16
18
19
Bear, Black
Claw

1-3

Club

5
7
8
10
11
13
15
17
18
20
22
Bite
1-6

Dagger

3
6
7
9
10
13
14
16
17
19
20
Bear, Grizzly
Claw

1-6

Club

4
6
7
9
10
12
14
16
17
19
21
Bite
1-8

Dagger

2
5
6
8
9
12
13
15
16
18
19
Bear, Cave
Claw

1-6

Club

4
6
7
9
10
12
14
16
17
19
21
Bite
1-12

Dagger

2
5
6
8
9
12
13
15
16
18
19
Beaver, Giant
Bite

4-16

Halberd

6
6
7
7
8
9
11
12
13
14
15
Beatle, Giant Bombadier
Bite

2-12

Sword, Khopesh

5
7
8
10
11
13
15
18
20
22
24
Beatle, Giant Boring
Bite

5-20

Bardiche

7
7
7
7
9
11
12
14
15
17
19
Beatle, Giant Fire
Bite

5-20

Dagger

5
8
9
11
12
15
16
18
19
21
22
Beatle, Giant Rhinoceros
Gore

2-16

Spear

2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
12
13
14
Bite
3-18

Bardiche

3
3
3
3
5
7
8
10
11
13
15
Beetle, Giant Stag
Gore

1-10

Spear

5
6
7
8
9
11
12
13
15
16
17
Bite
4-16

Bardiche

6
6
6
6
8
10
11
13
14
16
18
Beetle, Giant Water
Bite

3-18

Sword, Broad

4
6
7
8
10
11
13
15
17
19
21
Beholder (10HD)
Bite

2-8

Sword, Khopesh

1
3
4
6
7
9
11
14
16
18
20
Beholder (12HD) Bite
2-8

Sword, Khopesh

0
2
3
5
6
8
10
13
15
17
19
Beholder (14HD) Bite
2-8

Sword, Khopesh

-1
1
2
4
5
7
9
12
14
16
18
Beholder (16HD) Bite
2-8

Sword, Khopesh

-2
0
1
3
4
6
8
11
13
15
17
Black pudding
Slam

3-24

Mace, Horseman's

3
4
5
6
7
8
8
9
10
10
11
Blink Dog
Bite

1-6

Knife

3
6
7
9
11
13
15
17
19
20
22
Boar, Wild
Gore

1-6

Dagger

3
6
7
9
10
13
14
16
17
19
20
Boar, Giant
Gore

1-6

Dagger

2
5
6
8
9
12
13
15
16
18
19
Boar, Warthog
Gore

1-6

Dagger

4
7
8
10
11
14
15
17
18
20
21
Brownie
Dagger

1-4

Dagger

9
12
13
15
16
19
20
22
23
25
25
Thrown Dagger
1-4

Dagger (Thrown)

7
9
10
12
13
15
17
19
21
23
24
Buffalo
Stomp

1-8

Club

5
7
8
10
11
13
15
17
18
20
22
Gore
3-18

Mace, Footman's

7
6
8
9
10
11
11
12
13
13
14
Bugbear
Morningstar

2-8

Morning Star

5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
15
16
17
Spear
1-6

Spear

7
8
9
10
11
13
14
15
17
18
19
Spear (Thown)
1-6

Spear (Thrown)

7
8
9
10
12
14
15
17
18
20
21
Hand Axe
1-6

Axe, Hand

6
7
8
10
11
13
14
16
18
20
22
Hand Axe (Thrown)
1-6

Axe, Hand (Thrown)

6
8
9
10
12
13
15
17
19
21
23
Battle Axe
1-8

Axe, Battle

5
7
8
10
11
13
14
16
17
19
20
Mace
2-7

Mace, Footman's

8
7
9
10
11
12
12
13
14
14
15
Hammer
2-5

Hammer

7
8
9
10
11
11
13
13
15
16
17
Hammer (Thrown)
2-5

Hammer (Thrown)

6
8
9
10
11
12
13
15
17
19
21
Bastard Sword
1-10

Sword, Bastard

7
7
8
9
10
11
12
14
15
16
17
Bastard Sword (One Handed)
1-8

Sword, Long

5
7
9
10
11
12
13
15
17
19
21
Bugbear, Leader
Morningstar

3-9

Morning Star

4
5
7
8
9
10
11
12
14
15
16
Spear
2-7

Spear

6
7
8
9
10
12
13
14
16
17
18
Spear (Thown)
2-7

Spear (Thrown)

6
7
8
9
11
13
14
16
17
19
20
Hand Axe
2-7

Axe, Hand

5
6
7
9
10
12
13
15
17
19
21
Hand Axe (Thrown)
2-7

Axe, Hand (Thrown)

5
7
8
9
11
12
14
16
18
20
22
Battle Axe
2-9

Axe, Battle

4
6
7
9
10
12
13
15
16
18
19
Mace
3-8

Mace, Footman's

7
6
8
9
10
11
11
12
13
13
14
Hammer
3-6

Hammer

6
7
8
9
10
10
12
12
14
15
16
Hammer (Thrown)
3-6

Hammer (Thrown)

5
7
8
9
10
11
12
14
16
18
20
Bastard Sword
2-11

Sword, Bastard

6
6
7
8
9
10
11
13
14
15
16
Bastard Sword (One Handed)
2-9

Sword, Long

4
6
8
9
10
11
12
14
16
18
20
Bugbear, Chieftain
Morningstar

4-10

Morning Star

3
4
6
7
8
9
10
11
13
14
15
Spear
3-8

Spear

5
6
7
8
9
11
12
13
15
16
17
Spear (Thown)
3-8

Spear (Thrown)

6
7
8
9
11
13
14
16
17
19
20
Hand Axe
3-8

Axe, Hand

4
5
6
8
9
11
12
14
16
18
20
Hand Axe (Thrown)
3-8

Axe, Hand (Thrown)

5
7
8
9
11
12
14
16
18
20
22
Battle Axe
3-10

Axe, Battle

3
5
6
8
9
11
12
14
15
17
18
Mace
4-9

Mace, Footman's

6
5
7
8
9
10
10
11
12
12
13
Hammer
4-7

Hammer

5
6
7
8
9
9
11
11
13
14
15
Hammer (Thrown)
4-7

Hammer (Thrown)

5
7
8
9
10
11
12
14
16
18
20
Bastard Sword
3-12

Sword, Bastard

5
5
6
7
8
9
10
12
13
14
15
Bastard Sword (One Handed)
3-10

Sword, Long

3
5
7
8
9
10
11
13
15
17
19
Bulette
Bite

4-48

Sword, Two-handed

4
4
3
4
5
7
8
10
11
13
14
Claw
3-18

Spear

4
5
6
7
8
10
11
12
14
15
16
Bull
Stomp

1-6

Club

5
7
8
10
11
13
15
17
18
20
22
Gore
3-12

Mace, Footman's

7
6
8
9
10
11
11
12
13
13
14
Camel
Bite

1-4

Club

6
8
9
11
12
14
16
18
19
21
23
Carrion Crawler
Tentacle

0

Bo stick

5
8
8
10
12
14
17
20
23
25
27
Catoblepas
Tail

1-6

Flail, Horseman's

5
5
6
7
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
Cattle, Wild
Stomp

1-4

Club

6
8
9
11
12
14
16
18
19
21
23
Centaur
Kick

1-6

Club

5
7
8
10
11
13
15
17
18
20
22
Morningstar
2-8

Morning Star

4
5
7
8
9
10
11
12
14
15
16
Bow
1-6

Bow, Composite, Long

1
2
4
5
7
9
10
12
14
16
18
Lance
2-7

Lance (medium)

6
7
8
9
9
10
11
12
14
15
17
Centipede, Giant
Bite

0

Fist or Open Hand

9
11
14
15
16
17
20
23
26
28
29
Chimera
Claw

1-4

Club

3
5
6
8
9
11
13
15
16
18
20
Lion Bite
2-8

Axe, Battle

2
4
5
7
8
10
11
13
14
16
17
Goat Gore
1-4

Morning Star

2
3
5
6
7
8
9
10
12
13
14
Dragon Bite
3-12

Axe, Battle

2
4
5
7
8
10
11
13
14
16
17
Cockatrice
Bite

1-4

Dagger

3
6
7
9
10
13
14
16
17
19
20
Coualt
Bite

1-3

Dagger

1
4
5
7
8
11
12
14
15
17
18
Constrict
2-8

Spetum

2
4
6
7
8
9
10
12
14
15
16
Crab, Giant
Claw

2-8

Axe, Battle

5
7
8
10
11
13
14
16
17
19
20
Crayfish, Giant
Claw

2-12

Axe, Battle

4
6
7
9
10
12
13
15
16
18
19
Crocadile
Bite

2-8

Dagger

4
7
8
10
11
14
15
17
18
20
21
Tail
1-12

Flail, Horseman's

7
7
8
9
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
Crocadile, Giant
Bite

3-18

Morning Star

3
4
6
7
8
9
10
11
13
14
15
Tail
2-20

Flail, Footman's

6
5
6
7
8
8
10
11
11
11
12
Demon, Demogorgon
Slam

1-6

Flail, Footman's

-4
-5
-4
-3
-2
-2
0
1
1
1
2
Tail
0

Flail, Footman's

-4
-5
-4
-3
-2
-2
0
1
1
1
2
Improvised Club
11-16

Club

-8
-6
-5
-3
-2
0
2
4
5
7
9
Thrown Rock
5-9

Rock, Very Large

-2
-1
-1
0
0
1
2
4
5
6
8
Demon, Jubilex
Slam

4-40

Flail, Footman's

0
-1
0
1
2
2
4
5
5
5
6
Improvised Club
10-15

Club

-4
-2
-1
1
2
4
6
8
9
11
13
Thrown Rock
5-9+1d8 acid

Rock, Very Large

1
2
2
3
3
4
5
7
8
9
11
Demon, Manes
Slam

4-40

Dagger

6
9
10
12
13
16
17
19
20
22
23
Bite
10-15

Dagger

6
9
10
12
13
16
17
19
20
22
23
Demon, Orcus
Wand

13-19

Mace, Footman's

-11
-12
-10
-9
-8
-7
-7
-6
-5
-5
-4
Tail
1-6

Flail, Footman's

-4
-5
-4
-3
-2
-2
0
1
1
1
2
Fist
3-13

Mace, Footman's

-4
-5
-3
-2
-1
0
0
1
2
2
3
Thrown Rock
5-9

Rock, Very Large

-3
-2
-2
-1
-1
0
1
3
4
5
7
Demon, Succubus
Slap

1-3

Fist or Open Hand

3
5
8
9
10
11
14
17
20
22
24
Dagger
1-4

Dagger

2
5
6
8
9
12
13
15
16
18
19
Dagger (Thrown)
1-4

Dagger (Thrown)

4
6
7
9
10
12
14
16
18
20
22
Demon, Type I
Bite

1-6

Sword, Short

2
5
5
7
8
9
11
13
15
17
19
Claw
1-4

Sword, Short

2
5
5
7
8
9
11
13
15
17
19
Kick
1-8

Sword, Broad

2
4
5
6
8
9
11
13
15
17
19
Demon, Type II
Bite

4-16

Scimitar

1
4
5
7
8
10
12
13
15
16
18
Claw
1-3

Knife

1
4
5
7
9
11
13
15
17
18
20
Demon, Type III
Talons

2-12

Spear

3
4
5
6
7
9
10
11
13
14
15
Claw
1-3

Knife

0
3
4
6
8
10
12
14
16
17
19
Bite
2-5

Club

2
4
5
7
8
10
12
14
15
17
19
Demon, Type IV
Fist

1-4

Mace, Horseman's

1
2
3
4
5
6
6
7
8
8
9
Bite
2-8

Club

0
2
3
5
6
8
10
12
13
15
17
Improvised Club
7-13

Club

-1
1
2
4
5
7
9
11
12
14
16
Thrown Rock
5-9

Rock, Large

3
4
6
7
8
10
12
14
16
18
21
Demon, Type V
Constrict

5-9

Spetum

2
4
6
7
8
9
10
12
14
15
16
Scimitar
1-8

Scimitar

1
4
5
7
8
10
12
13
15
16
18
Falchion
2-8

Sword, Falchion

4
5
5
6
7
8
10
12
14
15
17
Mace
2-7

Mace, Horseman's

4
5
6
7
8
9
9
10
11
11
12
Longsword
1-8

Sword, Long

2
4
6
7
8
9
10
12
14
16
18
Javelin
1-6

Javelin (Thrown)

-1
1
1
3
5
7
9
11
13
15
17
Demon, Type VI
Sword

9-20

Sword, Two-handed

0
0
-1
0
1
3
4
6
7
9
10
Whip
8-9

Whip

-2
2
2
5
7
10
13
16
19
22
25
Demon, Yeenoghu
Flail

3=18

Flail, Horseman's

-10
-10
-9
-8
-6
-5
-4
-3
-2
-1
0
Javelin
9-15

Javelin (Thrown)

0
2
2
4
6
8
10
12
14
16
18
Devil, Asmodeus
Rod

14-17

Mace, Horseman's

-11
-10
-9
-8
-7
-6
-6
-5
-4
-4
-3
Devil, Baalzebul
Bite

2-12

Scimitar

-8
-5
-4
-2
-1
1
3
4
6
7
9
Military Fork
11-20

Fork, Military

-11
-9
-9
-8
-6
-5
-3
-1
0
2
3
Whip
11-13

Whip

-13
-9
-9
-6
-4
-1
2
5
8
11
14
Devil, Barbed
Fists

2-8

Morning Star

2
3
5
6
7
8
9
10
12
13
14
Tail
3-12

Flail, Footman's

5
4
5
6
7
7
9
10
10
10
11
Devil, Bone
Hook

3-12

Trident

1
3
3
5
6
8
9
11
13
14
16
Tail
2-8

Spear

4
5
6
7
8
10
11
12
14
15
16
Devil, Dispater
Staff

14-19

Staff, Quarter

-14
-13
-12
-10
-9
-7
-4
-1
2
4
6
Devil, Erinyes
Dagger

5-11

Dagger

1
4
5
7
8
11
12
14
15
17
18
Devil, Geryon
Fist

3-18

Pick, Military, Footman's

-3
-3
-2
-1
-1
-1
0
0
1
1
2
Tail
2-8

Flail, Footman's

-4
-5
-4
-3
-2
-2
0
1
1
1
2
Military Fork
9-18

Fork, Military

-10
-8
-8
-7
-5
-4
-2
0
1
3
4
Devil, Horned
Fork

2-11

Fork, Military

3
5
5
6
8
9
11
13
14
16
17
Whip
1-4

Whip

1
5
5
8
10
13
16
19
22
25
28
Bite
1-4

Dagger

2
5
6
8
9
12
13
15
16
18
19
Claw
2-5

Dagger

2
5
6
8
9
12
13
15
16
18
19
Tail
1-3

Flail, Horseman's

5
5
6
7
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
Devil, Ice
Spear

8-18

Spear

1
2
3
4
5
7
8
9
11
12
13
Bite
3-12

Scimitar

0
3
4
6
7
9
11
12
14
15
17
Claw
1=4

Dagger

0
3
4
6
7
10
11
13
14
16
17
Tail
2-8

Flail, Horseman's

3
3
4
5
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
Devil, Lemure
Tail

1-3

Dagger

4
7
8
10
11
14
15
17
18
20
21
Devil, Pit Fiend
Ancus

8-14

Glaive-Guisarme

-1
0
1
2
3
4
5
7
8
10
11
Morningstar
8-14

Morning Star

-3
-2
0
1
2
3
4
5
7
8
9
Dinosaur, Anatosaurus
Tail

1-4

Mace, Footman's

3
2
4
5
6
7
7
8
9
9
10
Dinosaur, Ankylosaurus
Tail

3-18

Flail, Footman's

5
4
5
6
7
7
9
10
10
10
11
Dinosaur, Antrodamus
Claw

1-4

Scimitar

-2
1
2
4
5
7
9
10
12
13
15
Bite
6-24

Sword, Two-handed

1
1
0
1
2
4
5
7
8
10
11
Dinosaur, Apatosaurus
Tail

3-18

Lance (heavy)

-5
-4
-4
-3
-3
-2
-1
-1
0
0
1
Stomp
4-40

Lance (heavy)

-5
-4
-4
-3
-3
-2
-1
-1
0
0
1
Dinosaur, Archelon lschyras
Bite

3-12

Scimitar

2
5
6
8
9
11
13
14
16
17
19
Dinosaur, Braicosaurus
Tail

5-20

Lance (heavy)

-5
-4
-4
-3
-3
-2
-1
-1
0
0
1
Stomp
8-80

Lance (heavy)

-5
-4
-4
-3
-3
-2
-1
-1
0
0
1
Dinosaur, Camarasaurus
Tail

5-20

Lance (heavy)

-2
-1
-1
0
0
1
2
2
3
3
4
Stomp
3-30

Lance (heavy)

-2
-1
-1
0
0
1
2
2
3
3
4
Dinosaur, Ceratosaurus
Claw

1-4

Scimitar

1
4
5
7
8
10
12
13
15
16
18
Bite
6-24

Sword, Two-handed

4
4
3
4
5
7
8
10
11
13
14
Dinosaur, Cetiosaurus
Tail

3-18

Lance (heavy)

-4
-3
-3
-2
-2
-1
0
0
1
1
2
Stomp
4-40

Lance (heavy)

-4
-3
-3
-2
-2
-1
0
0
1
1
2
Dinosaur, Dinichtys`
Bite

5-20

Sword, Two-handed

3
3
2
3
4
6
7
9
10
12
13
Dinosaur, Diplodocus
Tail

3-18

Lance (heavy)

-4
-3
-3
-2
-2
-1
0
0
1
1
2
Stomp
3-30

Lance (heavy)

-4
-3
-3
-2
-2
-1
0
0
1
1
2
Dinosaur, Elasmosaurus
Bite

4-24

Sword, Two-handed

1
1
0
1
2
4
5
7
8
10
11
Dinosaur, Gorgosaurus
Claw

1-3

Scimitar

-1
2
3
5
6
8
10
11
13
14
16
Bite
7-28

Sword, Two-handed

2
2
1
2
3
5
6
8
9
11
12
Dinosaur, Iguanadon
Gore

1-3

Hammer

5
6
7
8
9
9
11
11
13
14
15
Tail
2-8

Mace, Footman's

6
5
7
8
9
10
10
11
12
12
13
Dinosaur, Lambosaurus
Tail

3-18

Lance (heavy)

2
3
3
4
4
5
6
6
7
7
8
 
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