A maddening Poison

[Aleolus]

OK, here's a poison I came up with, let me know what you all think of it!

Madman's Music
Initial/secondary/tertiary effect: 2d6 Wis, 1d6 Wis, 1d4 Wis
Will Save DC's: 15, 20, 25

This is an insidious poision, designed to attack the victims sanity. Within moments of it entering the victims bloodstream, it makes its way to the creatures brain, where it settles in the portion that registers audio and visual input. Once there, it alters how the creature perceives events, making it so that everything they see and hear seems to be being performed in a song-and-dance number. This includes what they themselves do, though they can tell the difference between what they see/hear themselves doing and what they actually do.

Unlike most poisions, this one remains in the mind, affecting it for 2d12 hours. After fifteen minutes, the victim must make a Will save, DC 15, or take 2d6 points of Wisdom damage. Success indicates they take only half that. After another half-hour, they take another 1d6 Wis, unless they succeed on a Will save (DC 20) for half. Then, 1 hour after they attempt the second save, they take 1d4 Wis, with a Will save (DC 25) for half. For each hour after this that the effect continues, they are reaffected by the tertiary effect. This is treated as temporary ability damage, but cannot be restored in any way so long as the poison affects them. If, at any time while this poison is in affect, your Wis is reduced to or below 0, you go permanently insane, and constantly behave as if performing in a song-and-dance musical number.
Curing the poison, while the victim still has Wis remaining, can be accomplished in the same way as a normal poison, however if the target has already gone insane from the poison, only a Wish or Miracle spell can return them to normal.

EDIT: Thanks to eamon, there is now a new and improved version! Disregard the info above, and use this!

Madman's Music (Su): Supernatural Disease, ingested or inhaled, incubation period 15 minutes; each hour thereafter 1d6 Wis damage Will DC 25 negates.

Madman's Music is actually an insidious, magical poison, though it seems to be a disease - once ingested, the poison always remains until cured - no amount of sucessful saving throws cure an afflicted creature naturally. The ability damage caused by Madman's Music cannot be cured nor is healed naturally while the poison remains in the creature. As long as the afflicted creature's wisdom has not fallen to zero, the poison can be cured as any other poison, however, once the creature's wisdom falls to zero, it goes permanently insane. Nothing short of a Wish or a Miracle can cure a creature driven insane by Madman's Music.

 

[eamon]

It sounds like a neat idea, but the mechanics are overly complex. It's OK to deviate from the the standard rules of course, but the more you do so, the harder it is to remember and apply all the changes... so I'd try to remove as many differences as possible.

Things you could change: You have a recurring damage. All poisons have at most two effects, so you probably shouldn't call this a poison: make it a curse instead, perhaps modeled on mummy rot?
That means using the Disease Mechanic. And I suppose Madness is a disease of the mind ;-). There's no problem with causing it by means of an ingested substance.
Generally poisons and disease cause no damage on a successful save. There's no real reason you can't do the same, you should probably change that.
For simplicity, poisons and diseases always use the same save DC. You probably should to. Since your exception madness disease uses a will saving throw, it'll become harder to resist as time passes anyhow, and since you fail on a natural one, as time passes, even the wisest of characters will fall prey to the disease no matter what, if they're not helped.
Usually, especially nasty effects occur when an ability drops to zero, not to one. You should probably change that.
Since the ability damage can't be cured and doest naturally heal, you're better off just calling it ability drain right off the bat. Simply call it ability drain which can't be removed while the disease is in progress.
Normally, diseases and poisons use fort saves. However, your modification is rather flavorful, so that's probably the last thing I'd change back to normal ;-).
You currently have three different damage quantities. I'd try to make that at most two, and preferably just one. It's not going to make much difference for the flavor, and it's simpler.

Have fun!

 

[Meeki]

This seems to function more like a spell than a poison. Is it suppose to be some magical poison? Causing damage that cannot be cured by the usual spells, the rest line and heal, is really non-mundane poison like. Especially the save for half. Generally a save against a poison negates the effect. As you have written the subject will eventually go insane assuming the average is rolled for the hours (13 hours) for a minimum of 14 wisdom damage, assuming they make their save and minimum is rolled every attempt.

Also as per the poison rules, there is always an intial save. I know you can change the mechanics for your game but if you want to design it using standards its initial save then a save a minute later, although you can probably change the second part without any issues from anyone reasonable.

What is the whole lore behind this poison that makes it probably one of the most powerful poisons I have ever seen.

 

[Aleolus]

Except it can be healed or restored naturally, just not while it remains in effect. As I said, 2d12 hours, then (assuming they're still sane), it wears off and their sanity begins to return.

 

[Meeki]

The wording makes it sound like you are insane permanantly, just like you said "you go permanantly insane". It was confusing to decipher.

On top of that you mention

"Curing the poison, while the victim still has Wis remaining, can be accomplished in the same way as a normal poison, however if the target has already gone insane from the poison, only a Wish or Miracle spell can return them to normal."


Again vague. So if the poison is there I can cure poison if the victim has wis remaining, however if the victim loses all his wisdom he goes permanantly insane, which can only be cured, for some reason eventhough its a mundane poison, by wish or miracle. Although it does damage you said its permanant insanity. Although when you reach 0 wisdom its questionable if you can actually be insane or just sit there comatose.

 

[Aleolus]

OK, I'll try to clear it up.

If someone tries to cure you of the effect of this poison while you still have some amount of sanity (translation, a Wisdom score above 0), then it can be treated as normal for poisons, with a remove poison spell or similar effect.
Once your Wisdom score has been reduced to 0, however, then you can only be restored to normal, negating all effects of the poison, via a Wish or Miracle spell. Once you lose your sanity, only something truly miraculous can bring it back.

 

[eamon]

Have you considered simplifying and making the mechanics follow other rules more closely?

It'll help avoid confusion like Meeki's, hopefully without losing the essence of your idea.

 

[Aleolus]

Can you suggest a way to do that while still keeping the flavor and idea I have above?

 

[eamon]

Madman's Music (Su): Supernatural Disease, ingested, incubation period 15 minutes; each hour thereafter 1d6 Wis damage Will DC 25 negates.

Madman's Music is actually an insidious, magical poison, though it seems to be a disease - once ingested, the poison always remains until cured - no amount of sucessful saving throws cure an afflicted creature naturally. The ability damage caused by Madman's Music cannot be cured nor is healed naturally while the poison remains in the creature. As long as the afflicted creature's wisdom has not fallen to zero, the poison can be cured as any other poison, however, once the creature's wisdom falls to zero, it goes permanently insane. Nothing short of a Wish or a Miracle can cure a creature driven insane by Madman's Music.

i.e.
no three different damage types and saves - not necessary, it'll be scary anyhow, and as your wis inevitable drains away, the saves will get more difficult just because of that!
reference to disease mechanics - these already provide an incubation period and recurring effects.
saves negate, don't do half damage - this is more normal for all diseases and poisons, and it's simpler. It's not going to make much flavor difference, and since you'll fail pretty often against such a DC (at the very least on a natural one, which is more than once per day on average!), and the DC effectively rises anyhow, it won't make much difference.

You have a natural sunset clause after 2d12 hours. According to my calculations, even a creature with 30 Wis and +25 Will save will go insane after a mere 13 hours using your rules, so unless you're playing epic, that sunset makes little difference. In any case, with the "negates" clause, those kind of characters will be able to find a cure simply because it'll take longer.

 

[Aleolus]

Looks good, I'll make the appropriate modifications at the various sites.