D&D 3E/3.5 A message to the 3.5ers

[Psion]

How productive is this on a giant anonymous D&D messageboard as opposed to the gamers in your local area?

1) You assume I only play Face to Face in my local area. I play online, and I also play games at cons with people I previously only met on the internet. I've gamed with people that have posted in this very thread like FickleGM, CanadienneBacon, and Hobo.
2) In this very thread, I noted that Stormtower, who has also been an active participant in this thread, lives nearby. So that's one more player to ring up if my pool grows scarce. That's one potential local contact made through this forum already!
3) I don't dismiss the follow on effect. One person emboldened here could embolden people they know offline, which could be people that could one day cross paths with me.

Good question though!

 

[HeinorNY]

My main reason for my limited involvement is solidarity with fellow would-be 3.5 holdouts. If the perception takes hold that "everyone is converting to 4e" or "nobody else sees problems in 4e", some players that I might otherwise play with will throw in the towel... and give me less people to play with. I feel obligated to make my presence known, so that we can continue to exist as a body.

Lol, and where were you back in 1999?

 

[Psion]

Lol, and where were you back in 1999?

Er, why?

 

[HeinorNY]

Er, why?

There is no much people today to play 2E nowadays.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Oh come on. You are posting negative stuff about 4e in hopes of influencing 5e 8+ years down the road? Really?

Really. And I would be surprised if some others posting, pro and con, didn't have their eye on future editions as well.

You think posting negative stuff about 4e helps the health of the game, or you want to hurt the health of the game? If health of the game is an issue, I don't see how this helps the health of it.

I think posting concerns helps the health of the game, yes. In fact, I would go so far as to say that some of what I see in 4e -- a lot of what I like, actually -- seems to be in direct response to concerns that have been posted here and elsewhere.

I also see the game as being distinct from the company producing it. If I think 3.x is better for the health of the game than 4.0, I'm going to promote 3.X over 4.0. Just as, I imagine, many of the pro-4e folks here have in the past promoted 3.X over 1e or 2e. Or, for that matter, are promoting 4e now.

They saw your opinion the first time. 15 times later doesn't help. Besides, directly telling those third parties, rather than posting negative stuff about 4e over and over again in hopes a 3rd party publisher might happen to both see it and take your negative comment as a positive for them somehow, would be a lot more productive.

Excepting, of course, two factors:

(1) Signal to noise ratio. There are some folks who believe that "Rah rah 4e" is noise with which they have to compete in order to get a signal out, and

(2) They might not have seen my opinion the first time. Or they might have seen it and dismissed it. But my stating my opinion might draw out others who share that opinion, and when there are many people saying the same thing repeatedly, that might mean more than one person saying something once.

Again, it would be pretty inconsistent to believe that much of what looks good to me in 4e seems to be in direct response to concerns that have been posted here and elsewhere, and that I should not also post concerns about elements of 4e that seem less positive.

(6) the currently dominant memes of the gaming population at large (which might affect your ability to get together a group to play your edition of choice, and may also affect how that edition is approached by those individuals).

No need to post negative stuff about 4e for that.

Some may well differ on that, if their purpose is to promote one set of memes over another, so that they get a game that they want to play. There is no rational difference between "Rah rah" and "Nah nah" -- both are attempts to support a meme set at the expense of competing meme sets.

Or, put it this way, why post negative stuff about other's posts if you have no intention of being swayed by them?

RC

 

[Psion]

There is no much people today to play 2E nowadays.

Ah. Well for me, in 1999, there weren't too many people playing 2e locally either. In fact, it was amazing to me how positively hateful and bitter the local mailing list was to 2e. I had a hard time scraping a 2e game together. This was before the release of 3e, mind you.

On that same DC area mailing list today, I see many regular game announcements. Things seem a little healthier now than they did on the eve of 3e, but I don't relish the thought of being in a player-poor situation again.

 

[Psion]

Really. And I would be surprised if some others posting, pro and con, didn't have their eye on future editions as well.

FWIW, I don't have high hopes that a future edition is going to reverse course on things I really don't like. It's happened before for other games (L5R reverted to a 1e-like setup in 3e after consdierable outrage during L5R 2e), but by and large, the audience seems fairly receptive to 4e.

 

[Raven Crowking]

FWIW, I don't have high hopes that a future edition is going to reverse course on things I really don't like. It's happened before for other games (L5R reverted to a 1e-like setup in 3e after consdierable outrage during L5R 2e), but by and large, the audience seems fairly receptive to 4e.

They haven't played it yet.

For all we know now, you and I could be playing 4e avidly a year from now. Or some of the most avid pro-4e folks could be playing 3e.

RC

 

[Psion]

They haven't played it yet.

For all we know now, you and I could be playing 4e avidly a year from now. Or some of the most avid pro-4e folks could be playing 3e.

(shug) Good point.

 

[pawsplay]

Again the same strawman. NOBODY has said that if you don't post something positive you shouldn't post at all.

Enough with the Yellow Brick Road argument.

Real simple. People who are not switching to 4e have been asked not to post in this forum. This is the only forum where 4e posts are allowed. Therefore, yes, indeed, it has been said that if you aren't posting positive, you shouldn't post it, if you are not switching to 4e.

This "nobody said" stuff is just feigned politeness. It's pretty obvious that there is a lot of hostility. In the OP, the term "grognardry" was used, identifying fans of the old edition with curmudgeonry. The request was made for non-converts not to post here, on behalf of everyone who is converting.

So the OP basically contains two salient positions:
- People who are not switching to 4e should not express their opinions of 4e on ENWorld
- People who are considering 4e but have not definitely decided do not exist, or at least are not a significant audience for the 4e debate

So it seems to me that the OP effectively posits that the purpose of this forum is to discuss 4e with the aim of fostering enthusiasm.