D&D 3E/3.5 A message to the 3.5ers

[Psion]

Criticising parts of 4e is the way to go if you are basically a supporter and wish to see it develop in certain ways.

Now you are talking about your goals. I have no interest in your goals and think you should be free to pursue them. I am, however, just as free to pursue mine.

If you have no interest in buying or playing 4e and want to stick with 3.5 there is no point whatsoever posting negative comments here.

Not so. See the post you were replying to wherein I explain exactly how highlighting the flaws in 4e supports the continuance of a 3e community. There is a point and I think I have spelled out that point with excessive clarity. That you don't share my goal is not sufficient reason for me to desist.

Other 3.5 supporters won't know that that's your motive.

Do they have to know?

My goals do not assume anyone out there is a 3.5 supporter a priori. My goal is to let anyone skeptical about 4e to let them know they are not alone.

The best way to support 3.5 is... by supporting 3.5. Not by trashing 4e.

1) Nobody says I can't do both.
2) This is where the eyes are when people are thinking "should I upgrade to 4e" is on their mind. This is the right forum and will reach most of the people I am hoping to communicate with.
3) You say "trashing", but that's a bit of a loaded term. I won't trash 4e. I will raise legitimate criticisms.

You can support 3.5 by making positive posts in a lot of other ENWorld forums, where most of the talk is about 3e. After all if you wish to appeal to others positivity is always more attractive than negativity.

Don't pay much attention during election season, do you?

Critical posts are acceptable. Criticism that comes from a 4e-must-die PoV isn't.

I don't think "4e must die" and am under no illusions that I have the ability to stop it from coming or change it in any meaningful way.

What I can do--indeed, what one might say is the very purpose of these boards--is to communicate with other members of the gaming audience.

 

[Darkwolf71]

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but those of you who are asking for the posts to stop aren't mods, and therefore aren't the arbiters of what is and isn't acceptable behavior.

Not to mention, it seems to me that recently the posts crying out for a ban on these negative posters seem to out number those made by said negative posters.

Of course this may just be a perception on my part and not actual reality.

 

[DaveMage]

Well said, Psion.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Not so. See the post you were replying to wherein I explain exactly how highlighting the flaws in 4e supports the continuance of a 3e community. There is a point and I think I have spelled out that point with excessive clarity. That you don't share my goal is not sufficient reason for me to desist.

Are you saying that you're actively criticizing 4e in an attempt to keep people from playing it?

 

[FickleGM]

Are you saying that you're actively criticizing 4e in an attempt to keep people from playing it?

I believe that he's actively criticizing 4e in order to give more opinions about the product. This is interesting, because while I am pro-4e (sort of), I agree with his sentiment. If I want something a certain way and I don't want that something the other way and there is only one source of that something, then yes, I want to discourage people from buying the something that is "the other way". We discourage people from buying things all the time, with negative reviews and advice. Likewise, we encourage people to buy things that we like.

I actually prefer to see positive and negative comments...just not the same things repeated ad nauseum...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I hear what you're saying, and I may have been unclear about my 3e buying patterns. I am a completest (some of my gaming group might say obsessively so) and I don't like banning stuff (Wraithstrike-level game breakers excepted). My group, like yours, has basically treated WotC material as Core too and we haven't had a problem... my issues aren't with home games, as I've always been able to easily pick and choose what I want to include or exclude.

The problem here is that I became very active in the RPGA as a DM over the last two years and if I want to continue in that vein, I feel almost obligated to keep up with all the 4e stuff including D&DI. So when the 4e announcement occurred I felt squeezed between my loyalty to 3.5 and my desire to exhaust the possibilities of that system versus (my own perceived necessity, I'll grant) to remain current so as to stay active in the RPGA.

<snip>

Hmm. What would you have done if 4th Edition wouldn't have been announced and 3.5 material would be continued to be published? Wouldn't you have been in the same position as now?

I guess for you, D&D 4 was a chance to see that you are trapped in this completist mode and gave you the option to conciously decide to stop it. Maybe bad for WotC or the RPGA, but hopefully good for you.

 

[Shade]

I believe that he's actively criticizing 4e in order to give more opinions about the product. This is interesting, because while I am pro-4e (sort of), I agree with his sentiment. If I want something a certain way and I don't want that something the other way and there is only one source of that something, then yes, I want to discourage people from buying the something that is "the other way". We discourage people from buying things all the time, with negative reviews and advice. Likewise, we encourage people to buy things that we like.

Indeed. I'm a Batman fan, and like the Tim Burton movies just fine. I don't like what Joel Shumacher did to the series. Many people complained (and voted with their wallets), and voila! Batman Begins arrives and blows us away.

It may be too late to change 4e, but I believe it is still worth voicing complaints we can lay a decent foundation for 5e.

 

[cougent]

Could we agree to a moratorium on 3.5 grognardry in the 4th Editon forum?

NO!

 

[Doug McCrae]

Nobody says I can't do both.

The question isn't what you can do. It's what you should do.

I could 'support' Greyhawk by threadcrapping every Planescape thread but I shouldn't. I could let other Planescape skeptics know they are not alone but I shouldn't. The best way to support Greyhawk would be by telling people how cool Greyhawk is, posting links to my brilliant Greyhawk website and perhaps writing the occasional email to WotC.

Yeah you can do both, you can criticise 4e and praise 3.5. But it's not the best way to achieve your stated aim.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Yeah you can do both, you can criticise 4e and praise 3.5. But it's not the best way to achieve your stated aim.

It should be pretty obvious by now that some people disagree with this assessment.