A Method For Dealign With LA's?

[xigbar]

Don't forget those Commoners.

 

[Talonblaze]

@Jackinthegreen

We know the XP cost gets ridiculously expensive at the later levels because of this. We were trying to figure out an appropriate level for LA's so it wouldn't hinder them later on.

Dandu had an interesting idea where if they accumulated 1000xp from the penalty it buys it off. So roughly by level 4 or 5, a +1 character wouldn't have these issues anymore. Just pondering if 1000 is too little. But the system seems quite handy overall. Plus less work having to calculate the buy off.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

One thing that we've done in my group with some success, is to attach a hit die to the empty levels. We've gone with a 4d HD with poor attack and save progressions and 2 skill points per level.

This has gone a long way towards evening out some of the bumps on even critters with a very high level adjustment.

 

[kitcik]

@Jackinthegreen

We know the XP cost gets ridiculously expensive at the later levels because of this. We were trying to figure out an appropriate level for LA's so it wouldn't hinder them later on.

Dandu had an interesting idea where if they accumulated 1000xp from the penalty it buys it off. So roughly by level 4 or 5, a +1 character wouldn't have these issues anymore. Just pondering if 1000 is too little. But the system seems quite handy overall. Plus less work having to calculate the buy off.

I like the idea a lot but agree 1,000 is too low.

 

[Empirate]

Based on the math for a +1 LA without RHD, this 10% method is worse.

Let's go over the experience needed for levels under this system:

2 = 1100 (1000)
3 = 3300 (3000)
4 = 6600 (6000)
5 = 11000 (10000)
6 = 16500 (15000)
7 = 23100 (21000)
8 = 30800 (28000)
9 = 39600 (36000)
10 = 49500 (45000)


At 10th level he's taken a penalty of 4500 XP. Using LA buyoff, a +1 LA without RHD can buy the LA off with as little as 3000 XP. Each Racial HD increases this by 1000.

Extrapolating the math up to level 20, and including level 21 base xp for a bit of comparison:

11 = 60500 (55000)
12 = 72600 (66000)
13 = 85800 (78000)
14 = 100100 (91000)
15 = 115500 (105000)
16 = 132000 (120000)
17 = 149600 (136000)
18 = 168300 (153000)
19 = 188100 (171000)
20 = 209000 (190000)
21 = xxxxxxx (210000)
Upon attaining 20th level, this 10% character has effectively lost 19000 xp because of his LA. He could have just lost 3000 xp by buying it off.

If the LA wasn't bought off and it was played under the normal rules, the character would reach 20 class levels at 210000 xp, or just 1000 xp more than with the 10% version.

Sorry. ^^;

Not quite true. Since your character would be below your group's average level a lot of the time, he'd gain more XP for the same fights on average. So the 10% penalty would work out to effectively be less than 10%. Depending on when the rest of the group levels, and when you level, you might even be able to squeeze a benefit out of your penalty, strange as that may sound.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Something I have thought about but I admit would be a lot more work:

Once whatever the benefit the LA grants becomes something that's reasonable equipment for a character of that level then that portion of the LA simply drops off, no buyout. As portions drop out you recalculate the LA.

The other thing I've thought of is assigning an XP value to the various benefits you get from the LA race. Working from smallest to largest you consider the features paid off when that much XP has been lost to the LA penalty.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Not quite true. Since your character would be below your group's average level a lot of the time, he'd gain more XP for the same fights on average. So the 10% penalty would work out to effectively be less than 10%. Depending on when the rest of the group levels, and when you level, you might even be able to squeeze a benefit out of your penalty, strange as that may sound.

If the DM is awarding XP based upon each character's level, then that would certainly work.

That's a big "if" though. I'll admit I don't have experience with many DM's (only two), but they both award XP based on the average party level and use the XP per encounter guides in the DMG. If I do my math right, also sometimes a big "if," under the 10% rule a +1 LA would always trail just barely behind a +0 party, to the point where it's just a couple encounters' difference or even a handful of magic items that the +0's created. This 10% system is actually pretty good, although LA buyoff is still better typically. It's a shame so many things have Racial HD and that there aren't rules for futzing with those really.

 

[Empirate]

I for one award XP to each PC separately, based upon their respective level. I know many DMs don't do that, but it's not exactly uncommon, either, I believe.

Have you taken a look at Frank&K's ideas on the level adjustment thing? They still take a bit of work to make useful, and depend a lot on what creature exactly your players want to play, but I like some of their basic ideas.

 

[Talonblaze]

I for one award XP to each PC separately, based upon their respective level. I know many DMs don't do that, but it's not exactly uncommon, either, I believe.

Have you taken a look at Frank&K's ideas on the level adjustment thing? They still take a bit of work to make useful, and depend a lot on what creature exactly your players want to play, but I like some of their basic ideas.

The DM does it kinda half and half. Party XP for monster encounters or group instances and separate XP for special or solo instances (not involving large fights) such as acting in character or such.

But I haven't heard of the Frank&K's version. (Unless it goes by a different name.) The current PC in question wants to play a Poison Dusk Lizardfolk. [MM3]

 

[Empirate]

Fank & K's complete oeuvre can be found here.