A new Twilight:2000... how would you do it?

[Calico_Jack73]

I found the press release... now I am happy!

QLI Announces TWILIGHT
The End of Civilization on Earth?
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

July 22, 2003 - QuikLink Interactive today announced their forthcoming Twilight sourcebook, offering a harrowing vision of global nuclear war.

QuikLink Interactive, based in Georgia, is best known for its T20 game; an adaptation of the award-winning Traveller RPG for the d20 system. QLI also publishes other RPG products and internet gaming resources.

The Twilight sourcebook, written by Craig Baugh and Martin J Dougherty, is based on the popular Twilight 2000 RPG, published in the 1980s by Games Designers Workshop. It covers all aspects of the original Twilight 2000 and more.

Twilight assumes that the cold war went hot in the late 1980s, leading to a major war between East and West. Troops sent to Europe to fight the war are cut off, short of supplies and desperate to get home. But home is scarcely in better shape than the war zone, so the fight to survive and rebuild civilization continues.

Twilight is a detailed sourcebook for military roleplaying in the modern environment and presents details of vehicles and weapons in use by all sides in the battle for human survival. Other sections of the book deal with daily life in an environment where food is a luxury and ammunition can be more valuable than gold.

The world of Twilight is also detailed, with a timeline for the course of the war and its aftermath, which ultimately sets the stage for QLI’s 2320AD game.

Twilight is one of a series of licensed products to be released by QuikLink Interactive for use with their T20 roleplaying rules. Other licenses include a sourcebook for John Ringo’s Posleen War series. For more information please visit our website http://www.RPGRealms.com

 

[Calico_Jack73]

According to the Traveller T2K site they still have an open call for authors to write Twilight. It looks like they want the book to be about 132,000 words from the timeline they proposed which is 6-12 months. They want the book to only include setting material and any rules changes from the Traveller's handbook (no cheating by including previously written rules). Anyway, I figured that there might be some folks here at ENWorld that might be suitable for writing such a work.

Twilight Open Call for Authors

 

[Morte]

According to the Traveller T2K site they still have an open call for authors to write Twilight

That's out of date, the book is just about written. As I recall:

- It's set in the original era (despite being called T2020), so it's an alternate history game now.

- It still starts by default in Poland, but the source material has been opened up to let you play in jungles or deserts or Toronto or whatever.

- The mechanics are based on T20 (very gritty D20) but adapted and focussed on a contemporary (para-)military style of play. Spaceships have been removed, and deuce-and-a-halfs added, so to speak.

- It is a sourcebook for T20. You will need a T20 rulebook to play. There's also an OGL T20 player's book in the works, so you wouldn't "need" the D20 core book. [Not that that's much of an issue at ENworld, but for old-time players who never got into D20 it would be.]

 

[3catcircus]

I'd like to see a reprint of the V2.2 rules, using Mitch Berg's career expansion information.

I'd like to see a complete revamp of the orders of battle to reflect a real-world 1989 ORBAT.

I'd like to see a more realistic promotion system and the ability to choose terms of less than four years.

Otherwise, I think that the v2.2 rules are pretty darn good as-is. GDW's D20 system is far superior to WOTC's d20 system for this application - The system uses a roll <= (skill + attribute) mechanic and various difficulty levels (Easy, Average, Difficult, Formidable, Impossible that are x4, x2, x1, x1/2, x1/4 the (skill+attribute)). This works for skill checks, for most combat checks (automatic fire is a bit different - but it works *extremely* well and uses the same mechanic for automatic fire, bursts, or strafing - especially as compared to Star Wars/Spycraft/SG-1 burst, strafe, or auto fire rules.)

I also like v2.2's hit point system since it is a lot more realistic than D&D or a VP/WP system and works well for a realistic game. Each body part has a different set of hit points. Up to 1/2 that hp is a scratch (lose your next action), From 1/2 up to 1x hit points is a slight wound (Initiative - 1), Up to 2x hit points is a serious wound (some attributes drop by half, Initiative drops by 2 more, and you gotta determine if you pass out or not), and anything over 2x hit points is a critical wound (you *will* pass out, gotta see if you die right there, etc.)

I also really like the initiative system - initiative is a fixed number that can only change as a result of gaining experience - higher initiative goes first, and if Init >=6 you get two actions during a combat turn. The v2.0 system had an interesting, more complicated system that also worked well - each combat turn was divided into phases and initiative went like this: Phase 6 - initiative 6 acts, Phase 5 - initiative 5 acts then initiative 6 acts, Phase 4 - initiative 4 acts, initiative 5 acts, and then initiative 6 acts, etc...

Bottom line - redoing TW2K using anything other than a rules-set similar to v2.2 is not a good idea, IMHO. WOTC's d20 rules would be the absolutely worst choice - there is no room for those rules when trying to emulate a realistic world.

 

[Emiricol]

I have to disagree. I think it can be done quite well. Now, saying that it can be done and actually doing it are two different things, but saying "D20 can't do it and this is a horrible choice" is extremely premature.

 

[ddougan]

- It is a sourcebook for T20. You will need a T20 rulebook to play. There's also an OGL T20 player's book in the works, so you wouldn't "need" the D20 core book. [Not that that's much of an issue at ENworld, but for old-time players who never got into D20 it would be.]

This is really, really disappointing. And probably means the Twilight 2020 sourcebook will be the first Twilight 2000 product I won't buy (across all 3 editions - plus the reprint - so I love TW2K .

I find it incredible that they are expecting us to buy (and read, and reference, and look-up) 3 core rule books:

A D20 Core Rule book
T20 Traveller
T20 Twilight

to play the game. They are actively limiting their market - there's a big crowd out there that has D20 Modern, but not T20 Traveller. And how do they intend to attract new players to TW2K if they are expected to start with 2 other books (I mean new RPG players - no one in their right mind is going to start learning to play RPGs with a game that requires 3 books from different genres).

I already own T20 Traveller and D20 (lots of Core Rule Books - for DnD, D20 Modern and Star Wars), but I want my rules for Twilight in 1 book - the thing that annoyed me most about Spycraft was that it was D20 System instead of just OGL.

I hate having to have multiple books lying around for my core rules. At the very least, they should have done a D20 Twilight with the T20 rules within.

Looking up rules across 3 books, trying to determine which are superceeded in later books, which rule is in which book etc is a right pain.

 

[Emiricol]

Interesting points. I know I won't be buying the T20 book just to play T2K. I too owned all editions and all modules, but fandom only goes so far. I will be curious to see if/how they try to resolve that issue.

 

[MEG Hal]

Fall of Man may be what you are looking for...

Earth is a foul place now….
The planet lies in ruins and man hold precariously to his survival. Strange creatures out of fantasy have invaded from another world and brought with them conflict and magic. The many gods of that other world have come with these elves, dwarves, ogres, goblins and humans and they have awakened the one god of earth who has been quiet for so long. Magic and technology are at odds with one another, seeming to be sentient beings battling for supremacy. Mingling with nuclear and toxic waste magic has warped and created things no one could imagine…and then there are the nightmares. Creatures spawned by our own dreams to bring us ruin and make earth a living hell.
Welcome to the world of Fall of Man: A Post-apocalyptic, gothic horror, fantasy earth setting.
Features:
A complete game within itself using the Open Gaming License by Wizard’s of the Coast and compatible with the 3.5 and modern edition rules.
All new core classes like the Asphalt Samurai and the Gifted.
All new races using racial levels allowing characters to become more in tune with their own kind.
Familiar races of fantasy abound though they all have a twist.
A new “gritty” combat system that is deadly, fast, and fun.
Level progression through 30th level with core classes, racial levels, advanced classes, and master classes.
New magic system that blends with standard magic in 3.5 but adds many new layers such as toxic and nuclear effected spells.
Plus a new barter and trade system, Primal conflict rules between magic and tech, divine and magic, etc.
More feats, skills, spells, and items.

The core book will be a 256+ page hardbound book written by award nominated writers Doug Herring, Becky Glenn, Ken C Shannon III, Andrew Thompson, Andrew Troman and Hal Greenberg with art direction by award nominated Hal Greenberg and cartography by award winning Ed Bourelle. With an original painted cover by famed TSR artist Tony Szczudlo of "Birthright" fame. Come join the fray and fight for your life, we are serious this new combat system is deadly! Premiered at GenCon 2003 but available in Winter 2004!


Will you survive?

 

[ddougan]

I'd like to see a reprint of the V2.2 rules, using Mitch Berg's career expansion information.

I haven't seen these rules - do you have a link to them please?

Otherwise, I think that the v2.2 rules are pretty darn good as-is. GDW's D20 system is far superior to WOTC's d20 system for this application - The system uses a roll <= (skill + attribute) mechanic and various difficulty levels (Easy, Average, Difficult, Formidable, Impossible that are x4, x2, x1, x1/2, x1/4 the (skill+attribute)). This works for skill checks, for most combat checks (automatic fire is a bit different - but it works *extremely* well and uses the same mechanic for automatic fire, bursts, or strafing - especially as compared to Star Wars/Spycraft/SG-1 burst, strafe, or auto fire rules.)

I agree on some points here - the GDW house system does its job brilliantly, and I really dislike the automatic fire rules in D20 Modern and Spycraft. TW2K end edition (and even better in 2.2 - which gave highly trained characters a slightly better chance than the totally random D6 from v2.0) autofire rules where very nice.

However, I didn't like the way the task system handled extremely hard tasks (ie x1/2 and x1/4), because it basically meant that a character needed 4 full skill points above another in order to have a better chance at completing an impossible task. When you look at something like an unexperienced character (skill level=0) and a fairly experienced character (skill level=3), I'd expect a bit of a better difference in the odds.

So I'd like to see a linear DC approach that D20 uses in my perfect v2.2 rewrite

I also like v2.2's hit point system since it is a lot more realistic than D&D or a VP/WP system and works well for a realistic game. Each body part has a different set of hit points. Up to 1/2 that hp is a scratch (lose your next action), From 1/2 up to 1x hit points is a slight wound (Initiative - 1), Up to 2x hit points is a serious wound (some attributes drop by half, Initiative drops by 2 more, and you gotta determine if you pass out or not), and anything over 2x hit points is a critical wound (you *will* pass out, gotta see if you die right there, etc.)

I actually prefered the wound system used in 2300 AD - where each and every single hit that penetrated had the chance to kill you. You rolled for potential severity (modified by hit location), and then rolled for actual severity (based on damage).

Having said that, I do use a VP-per-location house rule in Spycraft. Armour only provides Damage Reduction (no modifier to Defence) on the locations is protects.

I also really like the initiative system - initiative is a fixed number that can only change as a result of gaining experience - higher initiative goes first, and if Init >=6 you get two actions during a combat turn. The v2.0 system had an interesting, more complicated system that also worked well - each combat turn was divided into phases and initiative went like this: Phase 6 - initiative 6 acts, Phase 5 - initiative 5 acts then initiative 6 acts, Phase 4 - initiative 4 acts, initiative 5 acts, and then initiative 6 acts, etc...

I really preferred the 2.2 initiative rule over v2.0 - it seemed to have an awful lot more management.

The V2.2 initiative rules where similar to those in 2300AD as well.

Bottom line - redoing TW2K using anything other than a rules-set similar to v2.2 is not a good idea, IMHO. WOTC's d20 rules would be the absolutely worst choice - there is no room for those rules when trying to emulate a realistic world.

This I don't agree with

There's nothing inherently wrong with the D20 game system that stops it doing Twilight 2000 properly.

I agree with you that it would NOT be D20 Modern (or indeed Spycraft) rules out-of-the-box. But a variant D20 game system would handle Twilight 2000 very well.

I too would *prefer* to see an improved v2.2 ruleset over D20, but I'd take a D20 based version if it was done well (which I'm afraid, I already dislike due to the decision to base the rules on 3 sets of books, and I don't agree with all the decisions they took in doing T20).

 

[3catcircus]

Fall of Man may be what you are looking for...
/QUOTE]

No offense, but Fall of Man doesn't sound like the type of game a die-hard TW2K fan would buy. Most of us die-hard TW2K fans want "gritty, real-world, excruciating detail based on real-world facts" in a remake of TW2K.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't give it a try as a replacement for Gamma World, though.