A novel way to acheive intra-spell balance

[FrogReaver]

I didn't say prepare. Wizards can already have a tonne of spells in their book, so... see previous point.

You do know a wizard doesn't have every spell in their book prepared right?

 

[Yunru]

You do know a wizard doesn't have every spell in their book prepared right?

So? It's easy enough to shift which spells you have prepared.
Edit: Huh, coulda sworn they switched which they had on a short rest.

 

[jgsugden]

You can go old school and just deny your PCs the chance to learn some spells. Some examples of this idea:

For example, when a wizard gains a level and gets 2 spells, they have to roll an intelligence check for each with a DCof 15+spell level. if they fail, they can't learn the spell for a number of levels equal to the amount by which they failed the check. They can immediately attempt again with a different spell until they've learned 2. They have to make the same check when trying to learn a spell from a scroll or spellbook, but do not get to try another spell in the place of the original spell.

A cleric can pick half of their prepared spells, but the God (DM) picks the other half.

Half of the spells a sorcerer knows must be original creations.

 

[FrogReaver]

You can go old school and just deny your PCs the chance to learn some spells. Some examples of this idea:

For example, when a wizard gains a level and gets 2 spells, they have to roll an intelligence check for each with a DCof 15+spell level. if they fail, they can't learn the spell for a number of levels equal to the amount by which they failed the check. They can immediately attempt again with a different spell until they've learned 2. They have to make the same check when trying to learn a spell from a scroll or spellbook, but do not get to try another spell in the place of the original spell.

A cleric can pick half of their prepared spells, but the God (DM) picks the other half.

Half of the spells a sorcerer knows must be original creations.

Interesting variations but they don't really do what I'm after. You're not incentivizing the caster to take inferior spells you are making it impossible to take their first choice spells. In which case they will just try their 2nd choice and 3rd choice etc.

 

[TallIan]

You don't think being able to take maybe 5 highly situational spells in place of good spell wouldn't change your mind about what you would take?

Not any more than the spell level system already allows. The situational spell will have to be significantly better in its niche than the generally more useful spell is, to the point that the situational spell is probably over powered. I will say that this has a LOT to do with the way I play.

Your list below doesn't include many spells that would make my list if the used less "prep points", some of them might if they were tweaked.

Burning Hands - I would usually rather have thunderwave for its push effect. Buring hands has a use when I'm playing a front line caster, as a caster I might choose this if it did more damage. As a caster I usually want to get away when something is this close though.
Disguise Self - useful in a social campaign, useless in a dungeon. So I would take this depending on the style of game.
Illusory Script - useful in a social campaign, useless in a dungeon. So I would take this depending on the style of game.
Jump - Just not worth worrying about, you get levitate and fly soon enough, in the mean time just think of something else.
Arcane Lock - Most low level PC's don't have anything to lock, at higher levels you have better anti theft devices
Dust devil - Just a bad spell
Crown of Madness
Hold Person - I do take this spell often enough, as long as I know there will be persons to hold
Continual Flame - light cantrip for a second level spell slot???
Melf's Acid Arrow - for second level spell I expect some significant battlefield control, maybe I'd take this at 1st level with slightly less damage, otherwise this just isn't worth an investment of resources.
Aganazzar’s scorcher - Also just bad for 2nd level, the only situation this would be good is if the DM like to line up my enemies to be killed.
Snilloc’s snowball swarm - Also just bad for 2nd level.
Glyph of Warding - This is the better security option that acane lock, but requires the PC's to have something to guard, like a castle. A spell I take when I have a home for my PC
Summon Lesser Demon - I really tried to like this spell when I played a conjuror, but its just crap. The only situation I coudl see it being useful is if my wizard was going solo and I had a way for him to not be in the room at the same time as the demon. Maybe if concentration was removed
Wall of sand - Just a bad spell
Bestow Curse - Maybe as a level 2 spell?
Feign Death - Maybe as a level 2 spell?
Vampiric Touch - Doesn't affect the battlefield enough to do minor damage to one target. More damage or level 2 maybe
Erupting earth

 

[jgsugden]

Interesting variations but they don't really do what I'm after. You're not incentivizing the caster to take inferior spells you are making it impossible to take their first choice spells. In which case they will just try their 2nd choice and 3rd choice etc.

The end result is the same - more variation in spellcasting.

 

[aco175]

You could have the bad guys and NPCs take these spells and give them unlimited use of them. This may give the players a view of them not sucking as much and eventually start to take them.

 

[Yaarel]

@FrogReaver


D&D 5e does a great job at removing broken spells from the spell list. Spells that are too powerful, to the point of interfering with the enjoyment of the game, are absent. D&D 5e removed the spells that are too powerful, but unfortunately has not yet removed the spells that fail to be powerful enough.

Spells that suck need to demote to a lower spell level, where they can become a more competitive option. Certain sucky spells might need to be rewritten or even reconceived.



One problematic is old school spells that might have made sense in earlier editions of D&D, but no longer make sense in D&D 5e. For example, what Legend Lore used to do, now works better as a History skill check, so it is usually unhelpful to use the spell at its relatively high level spell slot. These spells are familiar, but actually less useful.

It might even make sense to have some kind of ‘minor rituals’ category, where terribly weak spells can be cast as a ritual without needing a spell slot. Some spells might work better as a skill check.



I want to see an Unearthed Arcana that offers an updated spell list with more appropriate spell levels for spells. Also it can remove or update the spells that are usually useless.

 

[Yaarel]

Check out this assessment of 5e spells.

What is the Most Powerful Spell?

Post any thoughts about specific spells.

 

[Blue]

Not any more than the spell level system already allows. The situational spell will have to be significantly better in its niche than the generally more useful spell is, to the point that the situational spell is probably over powered. I will say that this has a LOT to do with the way I play.

There are plenty of utility spells that are great for their little niche. That does not equate to being overpowered.

Feather fall isn't overpowered. It's not even useful - until it is. Water breathing - same thing. Speak to Animals & Animal Friendship, add in Speak with Plants and Speak with Dead. Locate Object, See Invisibility. Magic Mouth, Sending, Tongues, Comprehend Languages. Create or Destroy Water.

I could go on and on. This is why the Wizard's ability to cast any ritual in her book, not just the ones she has prepared/known is so good. And there are a lot of niche spells that aren't rituals.

But no one is calling them overpowered.