A PC died in my campaign on Saturday

[meomwt]

Would a Grimlock butcher a Held opponent without a second thought?

Yes.

As a DM, you have to role-play the NPC's, if that means being blood-thirsty and showing no mercy, then that is what is expected of you.

All of us have fudged die-rolls to prevent random chance taking out a beloved PC. But in this case, both player and DM role-played out a combat situation. And I'm 100% certain that the Grimlock would have taken down the most powerful opponent and evened out the odds.

Stupidity didn't kill the player: role-playing did.

 

[Doug McCrae]

The definition of a hero is, of course, someone who gets other people killed. The halfling rogue was thus the most heroic.

 

[mhensley]

Ah so you need to design your character so he's only brave when he has two or more friends around?

I'm just saying that D&D is designed for group play, classes are designed to work as part of a team, and encounters are designed for groups to face. Independent action away from the group is punished by the design of the game.

 

[Darklone]

Bad luck. I wouldn't like that PC death either, but there's not much you can do in such a situation.

Still, I do like my players to try foolish heroic things. And sometimes they survive against ridiculous odds (like in the story in my sig) and that's something they still talk about years later.

Usually if a PC dies a heroic death, I give the player rewards for creating the next one, e.g. better rolls, a family heirloom or something similar. Or I allow a race/class combo that wouldn't usually be ok. It makes it easier to get into the new char and the old one will still be fondly remembered. Shelri, one of the chars in my shortstory, was such a replacement char of a character that sacrificed himself against two ogres to save most of the group. He died but that won the battle with just one casualty... where 6 of 9 PCs were unconscious on the floor and a TPK was otherwise impossible to avoid.

 

[werk]

Yeah that was foolish, although since he suspected the spellcaster was near completing a ritual, he thought it needed to be disrupted there and then. Hence made a sensible decision, if you don't look at things purely tactically. Shouldn't a hero try and thwart evils plans?

Did the CHARACTER know all that was going on?

As far as I saw, the rogue knew that was going on, and the familiar told his master that the halfling was captured.

Not a lot of info to launch the suicidal solo charge into an unknown hostile environment with divine spellcasters and a bad will save.


.02

 

[Tewligan]

Bad luck. I wouldn't like that PC death either, but there's not much you can do in such a situation.

What?! No, it's NOT bad luck - if you have an NPC do a coup de grace on a character, what the hell do you expect to happen? That's like if I punch someone in the face, and am then saddened and surprised by all the blood. There's PLENTY the DM can do in that situation - taking the held character as a prisoner, leaving them bleeding and unconscious but not finished off, having the grimlock turn his attention to other still-dangerous characters, etc. How is choosing to take an action that is specifically designed to kill - not damage, but kill - bad luck when the character does, in fact, die?

 

[mhensley]

What?! No, it's NOT bad luck - if you have an NPC do a coup de grace on a character, what the hell do you expect to happen? That's like if I punch someone in the face, and am then saddened and surprised by all the blood. There's PLENTY the DM can do in that situation - taking the held character as a prisoner, leaving them bleeding and unconscious but not finished off, having the grimlock turn his attention to other still-dangerous characters, etc. How is choosing to take an action that is specifically designed to kill - not damage, but kill - bad luck when the character does, in fact, die?

True, the dm could have just had him tied up while held. On the other hand, the pc did fail a couple of will saves and a fort save to end up dead. That's kinda unlucky.

 

[catsclaw227]

What?! No, it's NOT bad luck - if you have an NPC do a coup de grace on a character, what the hell do you expect to happen? That's like if I punch someone in the face, and am then saddened and surprised by all the blood. There's PLENTY the DM can do in that situation - taking the held character as a prisoner, leaving them bleeding and unconscious but not finished off, having the grimlock turn his attention to other still-dangerous characters, etc. How is choosing to take an action that is specifically designed to kill - not damage, but kill - bad luck when the character does, in fact, die?

True, the dm could have just had him tied up while held. On the other hand, the pc did fail a couple of will saves and a fort save to end up dead. That's kinda unlucky.

Actually you are both right.

I am sure that no one else has made this mistake before , but in the heat of the encounter, I made an NPC perform an action that made sense for the NPC, but as a DM, I didn't think through the possible repercussions. It was one of those crazy, high-intensity encounter things -- at 2am with everyone wacked on caffeine and junk food (and habanero, texas-style chili).

I have talked it through with the Player and gave him a choice. I usually give each player one mulligan at character creation that they get to use to do things like swap out a feat that they got at early levels that doesn't fit with the direction of the player, or maybe change a spell on a spell list, or something like that.

Since I made a mistake during the encounter with the way action points work, I let him use his mulligan on the PC death. He's badly jacked up, and the head wound from the morningstar will give him headaches and nasty visions for a while (giving me a new plot device), and he can still play his character. And he'll likely take a Warblade level at 5th and go up in Warblade for a while.

I appreciate all the comments, both as constructive criticism about my DMing and the way encounters and death should be handled in general. I will have the "death talk" with the players in the next session. I might not use a fate system to bail out PC deaths, but I might use the new 4e death/dying rules. Who knows.... I will think on it and see.

One good thing, the player was happy to still play his PC, he felt attached to him and his role in the campaign arc. I guess, in itself, is a DMing win.

 

[MithrasRahl]

This is no judgment at all of your decision to use it, but I absolutely hate the idea of CdG. Hate it. That situation was entirely avoidable by simply having the guards attack him and to a ton of damage. Hopefully the party catches up the next turn, and he gets another saving throw.

But yeah, CdG are no fun at all.

 

[catsclaw227]

This is no judgment at all of your decision to use it, but I absolutely hate the idea of CdG. Hate it. That situation was entirely avoidable by simply having the guards attack him and to a ton of damage. Hopefully the party catches up the next turn, and he gets another saving throw.

But yeah, CdG are no fun at all.

Yea, it seems like one of those rules that is OK when PCs use it, but bites hard when used by monsters or NPCs.