Is it right that there are seperate mechanics for at-will and vancian casting? If so, that puts up a flag for me - there should ideally be no "you can cast a spell this way by memorizing but you use it once and it's spent OR this way with a feat only with the feat you can do it all day blah blah blah"....it should perhaps be "spells are cast this way". That's the only way to make it as approachable as past editions.
A plea to stop over-complicating the base system.
- Thread starter B.T.
- Start date
Nytmare
David Jose
This isn't design by committee. The rantings and ravings of the message boards might influence the designers here and there, but it's not like every decision, opinion, or idea that gets aired here gets cut and pasted straight into the books.
howandwhy99
Adventurer
I disagree with the OP.
The community needs this open space, this time during play testing for each to voice their own concerns about what should be in the game. We should value this open forum of opinion for generating new House Rules that each can bring to their own particular game as well as attempts to retrofit older iteration's rules onto 5e. I don't believe anyone is attempting to ruin the game here. It's about giving feedback for the particular mash up of all of D&D each of us likes.
A plea to designers to avoid over complication (not greater complexity) and a high learning curve in the game is understandable. I don't want an overly complicated core game, which is a bear to house rule later and I don't think most others do either. However, the forums are not the people creating this game. The folks at WotC are. If anything, they're listening to the forums for later, optional add-on book modules with large audiences. (Another good reason to be vocal about your preference) But all of this really is subsequent to improving the material being play tested and the release of an accessible, fun, and easy-to-play core game.
The community needs this open space, this time during play testing for each to voice their own concerns about what should be in the game. We should value this open forum of opinion for generating new House Rules that each can bring to their own particular game as well as attempts to retrofit older iteration's rules onto 5e. I don't believe anyone is attempting to ruin the game here. It's about giving feedback for the particular mash up of all of D&D each of us likes.
A plea to designers to avoid over complication (not greater complexity) and a high learning curve in the game is understandable. I don't want an overly complicated core game, which is a bear to house rule later and I don't think most others do either. However, the forums are not the people creating this game. The folks at WotC are. If anything, they're listening to the forums for later, optional add-on book modules with large audiences. (Another good reason to be vocal about your preference) But all of this really is subsequent to improving the material being play tested and the release of an accessible, fun, and easy-to-play core game.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-ho...ully-alarmed-about-armour-10.html#post5940531
If they don't incorporate my idea that plate negates crits (if DR is not implemented, but actually I'd prefer it to DR now that I think on it more), I will be asking my DM to house rule it because it's too damn awesome to not have a D&D where plate is actually *good*, while not making the rest of the game slow or tedious for anyone else (and man, the envy...the peeples will save their "tithe returns" for plate armor now!)
If they don't incorporate my idea that plate negates crits (if DR is not implemented, but actually I'd prefer it to DR now that I think on it more), I will be asking my DM to house rule it because it's too damn awesome to not have a D&D where plate is actually *good*, while not making the rest of the game slow or tedious for anyone else (and man, the envy...the peeples will save their "tithe returns" for plate armor now!)
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Obryn
Hero
DR is not complicated in the rule-set, it's complicated during play.
It adds an extra step to combat that doesn't (IMO) need to be there. You're basically forcing double-subtraction, and the human brain already doesn't process subtraction as efficiently as addition. Sure, I know, "math isn't hard." But it slows things down, and if I grok what the Developers are aiming for, slow-downs and complications are to be avoided.
I mean, they already got rid of most situational modifiers to attack rolls and swapped them out for a system where you don't even need to add extra numbers to your d20+X roll. I don't expect to see New HP = Current HP - (Damage - DR) in the discussion.
Add that to questions like, "can I take 0 damage?" and "what if I also have Resistance? Which happens first?" and "Do I have DR against everything or just weapons?" Compare that to "I hit AC 18" and IMO this is a non-starter.
-O
Ok so make plate negate crits. That's the solution. Done.
And no crits means no crits against fireballs too. You are the pheonix from the flame. You still burn and cook a bit through your armor, but you can take the initial explosion to the face and walk out of the flames and chop the evil wizard down, and smote his ruins on the mountain side.
You are the terminator. Act like it. This is the rule of awesome.
And no crits means no crits against fireballs too. You are the pheonix from the flame. You still burn and cook a bit through your armor, but you can take the initial explosion to the face and walk out of the flames and chop the evil wizard down, and smote his ruins on the mountain side.
You are the terminator. Act like it. This is the rule of awesome.
Obryn
Hero
It's way better than DR, but it's still very conditional. As a plus, it's a lot more modular.
Crits don't happen that often, and it's still on a different level from "This is my AC and all my modifiers have been calculated ahead of time." Given a choice between this and a +1 to my AC, I'd choose the AC bonus every time.
I think it'd make a decent (though weak-ish) feat or a good modular add-on for armor.
-O
Yeah, but think about the psychology of the gamer, not just the character. You put this armor on. You NEVER get critted. Ever. You are Mr Reliable. You do not stop for a lucky strike. You keep fighting. You don't stop until the attrition war finally takes you.
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead. " --Kyle Reese
Who here wants to play the Terminator in D&D, one who has a bag of HP that only dwindles down ever-so-slowly. Raise your hands. Kobolds will see you and they will run in fear. Unstoppable (not really, but hey).
It works conversely too. You see the enemy in Plate, and he's slow, but you know it's gonna be tough to kill him. No one-shotting that guy. Ever. This would make D&D awesome again.
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead. " --Kyle Reese
Who here wants to play the Terminator in D&D, one who has a bag of HP that only dwindles down ever-so-slowly. Raise your hands. Kobolds will see you and they will run in fear. Unstoppable (not really, but hey).
It works conversely too. You see the enemy in Plate, and he's slow, but you know it's gonna be tough to kill him. No one-shotting that guy. Ever. This would make D&D awesome again.
...
Obryn, +1 from what? I'm playing the playtest next weekend with my friends. The current playtest values are already too low. (so others have said, including Mearls himself)
We're talking about next level improvements, to make heavy armor or maybe just platemail feel incredible. To own, to cherish, to polish, to covet. I would love it and hug it and call it George.
This my plate this is my mail. There are many others like it but this one is mine...My armor is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life.
amen.
Not to belabor the point any further, but, think of it this way...all this cost...for what? What are we really aiming for, in the end? You spend all this money, all this gold, all this effort to put it on, all this time to get it fitted just to you...and for what? No crits. This idea kills DR's complexity in one hit. And I'm a huge fan of the idea of DR, always have been.
Plate still helps you against regular, every day damage by its incrementally better AC. But it's the pinnacle because of that one...little...thing. No crits. Let's petition for it. Let's make it happen. In core. It's simple. It's easy. It's the right. Thing. To do.
Obryn, +1 from what? I'm playing the playtest next weekend with my friends. The current playtest values are already too low. (so others have said, including Mearls himself)
We're talking about next level improvements, to make heavy armor or maybe just platemail feel incredible. To own, to cherish, to polish, to covet. I would love it and hug it and call it George.
This my plate this is my mail. There are many others like it but this one is mine...My armor is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life.
amen.
Not to belabor the point any further, but, think of it this way...all this cost...for what? What are we really aiming for, in the end? You spend all this money, all this gold, all this effort to put it on, all this time to get it fitted just to you...and for what? No crits. This idea kills DR's complexity in one hit. And I'm a huge fan of the idea of DR, always have been.
Plate still helps you against regular, every day damage by its incrementally better AC. But it's the pinnacle because of that one...little...thing. No crits. Let's petition for it. Let's make it happen. In core. It's simple. It's easy. It's the right. Thing. To do.
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Well, you could start a poll as a first step and see if people agree with you.
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