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A public service massage

The bureaucracy of government is similar in many ways. In theory, you can take a dollar or an hour of your time, or both, and achieve something like feeding the hungry....

"Our country puts $1 billion a year up to help feed the hungry. And we're by far the most generous nation in the world when it comes to that, and I'm proud to report that. This isn't a contest of who's the most generous. I'm just telling you as an aside. We're generous. We shouldn't be bragging about it. But we are. We're very generous."—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., July 16, 2003

This is what I suspect and fear about the government model of providing services, health care, etc versus the free market model. It's also more of a core principal of conservatism.

I think you are overlooking the areas where the free market fails, namely in the arenas of public goods (roads, national defence, etc), externalities, market power abuses, and equity issues. Lack of oversight and a laissez faire attitude about economics brought about the Great Depression - and gave rise to Keynesian economics, which you seem to dismiss pretty handily.

Oversight is also just another kind of bureaucracy and is inefficient, not to mention the political difficulties that our party system entails when oversight fails.

Without this oversight you decry, we wouldn't even have GAAP (accounting standards). GAAP was pretty liberal for its time - it totally reinvented accounting, changed the way things were and paved the way for a more uniform future (in regards to accounting issues). Now it is old hat, and seen as rather conservative... Oversight (checks and balances) is important, from both an economic and accounting standpoint. Of course, what do I know? I am just an economics teacher with an bachelor's degree in accounting, an MBA and a lot of economic coursework underneath my belt.
 

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APewty, your argument shows a glaring contradiction: You say be wary of giving your money to other people and be reluctant to expect them to use it wisely, yet you also decry regulation. However, isn't regulation as close as we can come to making sure our government and economy operate responsibly with our money?
 

I must not make myself clear. Oversight is always needed. I have children, and I work with people that will get away with whatever they can. I know people don't always play nice without someone to make them do so.

What I'm saying is, the more layers of government you add, the more you add to costly and inefficient bureaucracy. At least I thought I said that.

I had no intention of saying it's an all or nothing situation. I understand there is oversight.

I think you are overlooking the areas where the free market fails, namely in the arenas of public goods (roads, national defence, etc), externalities, market power abuses, and equity issues. Lack of oversight and a laissez faire attitude about economics brought about the Great Depression - and gave rise to Keynesian economics, which you seem to dismiss pretty handily. ... Of course, what do I know? I am just an economics teacher with an bachelor's degree in accounting, an MBA and a lot of economic coursework underneath my belt.

OK, so you have an economics degree. And I said before I don't know economics. In my mind, there is a place for spending and a place for saving. There is a use for credit but credit should not be abused. As far as family economics go, it seems best to steer a middle course; don't overspend but don't just save. This seems prudent to extrapolate to all levels of economics.

As for Keynesian econommics, according to what I found below, it's a theory and is one of many economic theories. So, what are you saying? Are you saying it is the one true theory? And thus taxes should be manipulated to control the economy? If so, then the spending programs have to be manipulated, yet when a spending program is set up, it's done so with the intent of making it permanent. How can you expect to change taxing when your spending budget is nearly rock solid? This seems like a poor economic plan to a dunce like me.
Keynesian economics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't espouse laissez faire in economics nor foreign policy. But I do think that it's easy to have the attitude that something has to be done, just to do something!

APewty, your argument shows a glaring contradiction: You say be wary of giving your money to other people and be reluctant to expect them to use it wisely, yet you also decry regulation. However, isn't regulation as close as we can come to making sure our government and economy operate responsibly with our money?

The more regulation and the more bureaucracy, the tougher it is to affect one's money. One must jump through hoops in almost any transaction when not satisfied. Simple oversight is not the same as regulation. Regulations creates complex rules that are not easily understood or dealt with. Reference the so-called bailout. How could people be allowed to borrow money that couldn't afford it? Did this happen because there was not enough oversight? Or was it because of burdensome regulations that pushed organizations to make poor business decisions?

I believe in things like the USDA. The IRS is necessary for it's function, even if I think the tax law is too complex and takes too much money. The need for the organization is not in question, it's the level of red tape at all stages and the fact that it keeps getting thicker that I am against.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by APewty
The bureaucracy of government is similar in many ways. In theory, you can take a dollar or an hour of your time, or both, and achieve something like feeding the hungry....

"Our country puts $1 billion a year up to help feed the hungry. And we're by far the most generous nation in the world when it comes to that, and I'm proud to report that. This isn't a contest of who's the most generous. I'm just telling you as an aside. We're generous. We shouldn't be bragging about it. But we are. We're very generous."—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., July 16, 2003


I'm not sure I get how this quote is a reply to what I posted. The part you quoted from me is a reference to volunteering, like donating money to the food bank and volunteering your time to the community shelter to prepare food. What the government does is on a world-wide basis, and uses tax dollars. My point was that I believe, dollar for dollar, you get less through taxation/spending programs, than direct spending and involvement.
 


WARNING!! NOT WORK OR KID SAFE!!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUG0a_zEmx0[/ame]

Is this the kind of internet community that Obama appeals to or just a single case of a strange person?
 

Grimhelm said:
I watched this today and truly it is funnier than even the Tina Fey send-up. Unfortunately, it is for real. Can anyone say, "How do I pad my resume?" This woman could conceivably be a heart beat away from the Presidency of the United States! I have to say, though, that my darker side laughed uproariously at this video:

As a rebuttal of the original post and poking fun at Palin, I give you Biden's shining moment on youtube. I would think your darker side is going to have a good laugh again, Grimhelm!


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHEvuVE2MPQ]YouTube - No Way Obama - Joe Biden Rewrites History[/ame]
 

I'm glad to see that my video is getting circulated! That's no doubt worth over 1 million internets.

Dude, I was so drunk when I made that. Does my hair really look like that?
 

I'm not sure I get how this quote is a reply to what I posted.

Humor again. Your comment reminded me of that quote, so I threw it in, apropos of nothing, but that it made me laugh.

I'm watching the VP debate and Palin seems to be speaking fine.

She did better than I expected, but she avoided answering several questions and stuck to her talking points instead. She tended to turn the questions to a topic she wanted to address, rather than addressing the question. I felt Biden answered the questions more directly more often. Mrs. Palin annoyed me by repeatedly insisting Obama would raise taxes even after Mr. Biden corrected her. She also failed to answer any question about how McCain's policies would really be different from Bush's, even though she had several opportunities to do so. But I have to admit she did better than I expected.

I really disliked Palin's answer about whether the vice presidency is executive or legislative (she indicated the Constitution made the position flexible), but I liked Biden's answer - it's Executive, as set forth by the Constitution.
 
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It appeared to me that Palin was working with a list of prepared responses that she had memorized. She clearly had no knowledge of some of these issues until she was "programmed". She then spit out the same tired sloganeering. She steered the conversations into these realms repeatedly, completely disregarding questions. Her responses lacked substance but were full of cute winks and folksy language. I found her to be vaccuous and unimaginative. She did fine when she was talking from her prepared remarks, but when she has to really think on her feet, she stumbles and stammers over complete vacancies in her head regarding substantive issues.
 

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