D&D General A Question about Waterdeep - Where does the Drinking Water come from?

[Demetrios1453]

Build a city on volcano field. What could go wrong?

It's New Zealand. Not much choice other than to build cities in the shadow of volcanoes and seismically active zones.

 

[Demetrios1453]

True, but, how exactly does one get the water from Sargath - through 18 (ish) levels of the Undermountain - to Waterdeep? And, honestly, would you actually drink the water that is under the control of all those monsters? Never minding that the first level of Undermountain is a 140 feet below the Yawning Portal. Figure that you've got about 20 feet (at the very, very least) between each layer, and Sargauth is probably about 500 feet (minimum) below the surface of Waterdeep.

You're not drawing water from that.


But, therein lies the issue. There is no way to get good from Waterdeep east to the Heartlands. There's no waterway. Baldur's Gate makes much more sense since you have a massive waterway running from the coast, thousands of miles right into the Heartlands. The Dessarin River is miles from Waterdeep. Basically, all the trade goes north and south. And since you can't really go east from Waterdeep, why would you bother with it?

It's one of those things where the map was pretty obviously created without really thinking too much about how it works. Which is fine. Just mildly annoying from time to time if you start scratching below the surface.

Waterdeep's harbor is one of the finest on the planet. It's huge, deep, and protected by islands as natural breakwaters. A port was going to develop there no matter what simply for that alone. The harbor is just a few miles from the mouth of the major river of the north, the Dessarin, which flows into the sea in the middle of a swamp, physically precluding it from either having a deep harbor or the ability to have any decently-sized population center. So of course the trade coming down the Dessarin either unloads at Zundbridge and goes overland a few miles to the excellent harbor a few miles away, or goes there by sea (which is riskier, as river barges aren't terribly sea-worthy, which is why the waterborne trade can't go directly from the Dessarin and far out to sea to such places as Baldur's Gate; conversely, sea-going craft have too deep of a draft to travel up the shallow Dessarin). And trade there is in plenty; the various dwarven holds to the north - Mirabar, Mithral Hall, Citadel Adbar, and so on - produce huge amounts of fine-quality ore, gems, and metal, while the human cities produce various other goods, including lumber. All these cities need food and finished goods they don't produce on their own, but can be imported from points further south. Waterdeep stands at the nexus of all that trade. The Heartlands don't come into play in this at all - Waterdeep is rich from trade between the North and points south along the coast; Baldur's Gate is rich from the trade from Waterdeep (and other points north and south along the coast) and the Heartlands.

 

[MNblockhead]

I recently spent some time in Jordan and it is amazing what the Nabateans, Greeks, Romans, and other peoples did to manage water thousands of years ago. They were redirecting water over long distances and getting it up mountains in ancient times without magic or fantastical beasts.

Petra is especially amazing. Far smaller than Waterdeep, it had 20,000 to 30,000 inhabitants at its peak, but still it supported that many people, situated in a region with limited water resources. They used a system of dams, elaborate channels and pipes, and cisterns to capture and store rainwater. They also constructed several large dams in the vicinity to capture the occasional flash flood that happened in the area. The dams would slow down the flow of water, allow sediment to settle, enabling collection of clean water in downstream reservoirs.

Further, they had an intricate network of water conduits and and aqueducts they used to transport water from distant springs.

No rivers. No lakes. Supported up to 30,000 people with drinking water, water for agriculture on terraced gardens, and water for the locals animals and the animals of the caravans.

Also, no waterways for moving goods. All by road, on caravans. Yet it was a major trading hub in the ancient world. They were importing massive stone columns and statuary from Egypt, Greece, and Rome...by road.

EDIT
Also look at Aman (Philadelphia in Roman times). It was not located near any large rivers, though there were smaller seasonal streams and wadis (dry river beds that are dry most of the year but carry water during the rainy season). The nearest major river, the river Jordan, is several dozen kilometers away from the city. It relied on underground wells, reservoirs, and transporting water over long distances from other regions through pipelines and aqueducts.

One primary source of water for the city was Ain Ghazl springs, 11 kilometers (7 miles) away. Another was the Qanatir Aquaduct, which brought water from the Wadi al-Seraj area, around 20 kilometers away (12 miles).

Now these are much smaller populations than Waterdeep.

But lets look at Carthage. It is estimated to have had over 100,000 people and, while near the sea, had no nearby river or lake for its water supply. They relied on collecting rainwater, wells, nearby natural springs, and cistrens carved in bedrock under the city. They also constructed systems of aquaducts to bring water from distant areas. The Zaghouan Aquaduct brought water from the Zaghouan mountains, 70 KM (43 miles) away.

And, finally, they imported water through maritime trade.

A city like Waterdeep, which has much higher year-round precipitation, with Renaissance-like technology, fresh underground water sources--right under the city--and magic could certainly provide sufficient water for its population if Carthage could do it.

 

[Parmandur]

But it isn’t necessary. Just late medieval/Renaissance farming and fishing and food storage tech.

Like Waterdeep isn’t even outside the bounds of real life cities.

It’s there because Ed felt like there should be something, which is valid, but it isn’t actually necessary. Constantinople had a larger population when it was thriving, in a more aris landscape.

Like it’s fun to use magic food production and storage to create incredible excess food so that the whole region can be supplied through drought and such, but let’s not pretend that a richly fertile temperate land adjacent to the coastline and dotted and crossed with lakes and rivers, constantly being rained on, etc, would have trouble supporting half a million people without those fun little magical solutions.

Actually, I was just ruminating about this, and it seems that I recall reading somewhere that the Goldenfields Druid thing wasn't an act of abstract worldbuilding, but rather what one of Greenwood's Druid players decided to do at high Level, since his longterm home campaign is in Waterdeep. A lot of Waterdeep lore is actually emerging from PC decisions in that campaign.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Actually, I was just ruminating about this, and recalled that I recall reading somewhere that the Golden fields Druid thing wasn't an act of abstract worldbuilding, but rather what one of Greenwood's Druid players decided to do at high Level, since his longterm hoke campaign is in Watwedeep. A lot of Waterdeep lore is actually emerging from PC decisions in that campaign.

That makes a lot of sense.

 

[pukunui]

Actually, I was just ruminating about this, and recalled that I recall reading somewhere that the Golden fields Druid thing wasn't an act of abstract worldbuilding, but rather what one of Greenwood's Druid players decided to do at high Level, since his longterm hoke campaign is in Watwedeep. A lot of Waterdeep lore is actually emerging from PC decisions in that campaign.

I thought his long-term home campaign was set in the Dales. Perhaps he has more than one home campaign?

 

[Parmandur]

I thought his long-term home campaign was set in the Dales. Perhaps he has more than one home campaign?

Yup, he has/had two longterm campaigns (not sure how his gaming groups stand at this point). The Knights of Myth Drannor in the Dalelands, plumbing the megadungon of (shockingly) Myth Drannor, and the Company of Crazed Venturers exploring Undermountain in Waterdeep.

That's why the Dalelands and the environment of Waterdeep are the most thoroughly developed parts of the world, really. And why those two 1E style megadungeons loom so large.

 

[pemerton]

Why is there no canal linking the nearby river to the city?

 

[Hussar]

Why is there no canal linking the nearby river to the city?

Because there’s no need obviously. Several centuries of dragging stuff over land and drinking rainwater is obviously much preferred.

Or, maybe it’s because folks will invent a thousand reasons why canon is right before admitting to a single mistake.

 

[Autumnal]

Eh. On the one hand, amazing ancient features of engineering exist, as described above. On the other, people can and do miss the obvious for a very long time. (Barbara Tuchman’s book The March Of Folly is all about this in politics from the Trojan Horse to American involvement in Vietnam.) and it’d be very history-like if someone tried building that canal and it went wrong, and then for centuries thereafter everybody knew that however nice such a canal might be, you can’t make it work and so nobody else tried for ages.