A question for DMs more experienced than myself - aka everyone

[jydog1]

Howdy. With a lack of a home game to play in right now (but hopefully one on the horizon) I eased into learning/playing 4e at the local gaming store with LFR mods. As the owner accurately described it they aren't a nice steak dinner, but they're not fast-food either. Quality varies. Would I rather be in a game with a steady crew and actually getting to roleplay more? Absolutely, but this is what I've got right now. I'm enjoying playing them, especially with the better DMs, and since there's always a demand for judges I'm tempted to give the usual runners a break and take over for a night. I'm concerned about a few things, though.

1) I have maybe 15 sessions as a player under my belt right now (including one run by Piratecat) and while I've read the books numerous times I'm not sure my grasp of the rules is strong enough. There's always some rules defining going on during the games now, but I'm concerned my inferior exposure would make for a less-than-fun experience for the players, especially if I make glaring tactical blunders or whatnot.

2) The better judges tweak the mods to make them more challenging/more interesting. One DM changed so much and got us through so much stuff that the combination LFR/Myre mod netted us almost double the usual XP and was easily one of the best ones I've played. I doubt I would feel confident improvising like that right now with such experienced players, and thus would hate to put them through a boring slog they've done before with different characters.

3) I have limited experience in general running games and I'm not sure this is the place to cut my D&D teeth.

So, I ask for your thoughts. Would you be annoyed playing an LFR mod with an inexperienced DM (first person to say, 'I'd always be annoyed playing an LFR mod' gets a noogie)? Would your players (not you) take advantage of such a thing? Would you just choose not to play if this was your only option?

Fire away. Honesty appreciated. Feelings unlikely to be hurt.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Well, tell people straight-out that you are new to DM-gaming, and the nicer guys will give you a break.

I would probably try to arrange a pickup game off the official game night at the same store, though, if it were possible. There are probably a lot of old gameday, etc mini-modules around, and if the store has been doing this for a while, they most likely have some. If not, check out Wizards' site. There are probably some there, as well as some of the early 4E Dungeon magazines.

But go for it. When you run, simplify the monsters if you need to (have them not use one or more attacks) and see what their trick is. How do the monster's use their abilities to make the fight harder or more interesting.

For example, I ran a fight with Phase Spiders last night, and one of their big abilities was teleporting people who moved adjacent to them. So I added a few traps, a high column or two and a few pits, and the spiders had all kinds of annoying places to teleport the heroes to. It was quite interesting.

 

[Ferghis]

Would you be annoyed playing an LFR mod with an inexperienced DM?

I wouldn't be annoyed with a DM if his or her only fault was lack of experience. What kills a DM for me is if they don't find the fun in the game.

The job of both the DM and the players is to make the session fun. One of the DM's main jobs is to provide encounters that entices and scares the players. That's why most DMs try to fit as many choices with consequences in front of a player as possible.

Would your players (not you) take advantage of such a thing?

I can't talk for others, but I'd be irritated by players who took advantage of someone's inexperience. Not just because it's painful to watch. It's cruel, and anyone who watches and does nothing about it somehow condones the cruelty.

Would you just choose not to play if this was your only option?

If there is fun to be had, I'd be an idiot not to have fun. If the DM sounded like he could run a fun game, I wouldn't hesitate to play.

 

[Mengu]

It's not a problem. You have to start somewhere. Jumping into it is a good way to start getting the DM experience, and it sounds like you have enough play experience to run.

I certainly won't hold being new against a DM. However I can make a few recommendations on the mechanical side.

1. Make sure you have studied the encounters, know what the monsters can do, and have a game plan for their tactics. Resolving monster attacks quickly is an important priority.

2. If you use an initiative board put another experienced player in charge of it. Or if you're using initiative cards, have them prepped before the game.

3. Pick a rules buddy, preferably someone you know and trust with the rules, to be a player in the game. Any rules issues that come up which you can't address, turn to that player for answers.

Common new DM pitfalls I've witnessed are being too slow and ponderous with monster actions, and general flow of combat, spending too much time on a rules issue, or sometimes just a general lack of awareness of time in RP encounters.

For the rest of the game, when you're studying the module, be sure to highlight the important tidbits of information the players "must have" for the adventure to make sense. And check these off as you hand this information out. You really don't want to miss anything.

I also think it's a good idea to *not* paraphrase read aloud text for your first run of a module, however cheesy it may seem. The text usually gives the players exactly what they need to know. Second time around, you can be more conversational.

The rest is just adding color. Prepare in your head attitudes for the kind of NPC's that will be encountered. Think of where the climax of a skill challenge or combat encounter might be, and be sure to step away from the dice for a second to give a flavorful description of the moment.

Do these, and you'll have happy players.

 

[Joshua Randall]

If you're running LFR, almost everything you need is in the LFR adventure. You seldom need to refer to the books at all.

And, as I always say, being a DM isn't like joining some secret cabal nor does it require advanced technical skills. It's just running the game, the same one you've been playing.

 

[darjr]

The first time I DM'd LFR I showed up and got handed a mod. I wasn't prepared to run, I had not read the mod, I was nervous as a mouse. People keep coming back. I've even since moved to another store and people followed.

I think they'll understand. If there are enough other DM's you could try to run for them on an alternate day, I'd think they'd appreciate it.

 

[fba827]

you do have to start somewhere, and why not give it a try.

a) just state up front that you're new at this
b) during the course of the game, do not constantly point out that you're new at this (you said it already at the start, you undermine your authority by continuously bringing it up) -- much like how a novice speaker giving a lecture shouldn't keep saying "sorry i'm new at this" it deminishes and takes away from the audience.
c) mention it again at the end but not as an apology, embed it in your closing "thanks all for being part of my first DM experience, " etc -- something like that where you acknowledge it and remind them of it, but don't make it the focus of your point.

Other misc thoughts on the matter ..


-> If possible, pick a module to run that you have played before and enjoyed so that you have some perspective on how it went from a player perspective too.

-> I don't know how the games are organized there, but do you have a way to get your table be new players (or somewhat casual players rather than those that have been playing for 500 years and sleep with their dice)?

->are you in contact with anyone that you've played with before (as a player or if he/she was your dm) that you get along with socially, if so, see if they are willing to be at your table

-> when playing, if someone seems to understand the rules -and- is not a jerk about it, don't hesitate to ask that person for a quick reference to save you time of looking things up.

-> remember: not everything will go perfectly but frankly it never does even for experienced DMs.

-> Don't stress out from over thinking it; Just relax and have fun with it!

 

[Baumi]

Damn all the good answers were already given, especially the "Just Relax and have FUN!".

Even as a DM and Rule-Monkey with over 20 Years of Experience, I cann't know everything and often either make the rule on the go or just ask the players about it (it's their game too!). The important part is to keep things flowing and that everyone is having Fun (that includes yourself!).

Since you already played 15 Session, I don't think the rules itself will be a problem, so concentrate more on the adventure and the monster-special Abilites in your preparation. But even if you forget important things in-play, don't worry, if it was only a Monster-Ability then just ignore it and if it was an important story clue then just tell them you forgot something and give them the clue (it would be even better when you can improvise it and give it in another way, but don't worry about that in the beginning of your DM-Career).

 

[Wednesday Boy]

If there are times where the game is stalling because you're busy looking up a rule, I recommend making a well reasoned decision and worry about the exact rule at a break or after the game is over. As a player I would prefer to have an incorrect but logical call made that keeps the game going over a RAW correct ruling that interrupts the flow of the game. Especially if these situations come up often due to your relative lack of GMing experience.

Definitely give it a try and keep us posted on how it goes!

 

[Amaroq]

Jydog, a couple thoughts.

15 sessions played is plenty of experience to think about running your own session; a one-off session is perfect as you don't have to worry about your incorrect rulings setting a lasting precedent that break a game world.

DM'ing is kinda like dating: approach it with confidence - justified or not! - and you'll have better success.

Your grasp of the rules is probably not perfect. Neither is mine, and I've been DM'ing for 20 years. The key is, basically, "keeping the session fun" is more important than "getting the rules right".

Quick: the dragon is flying and out of reach. My fighter uses my L7 Encounter power "Come and Get It" to pull the flying dragon down 2 squares and adjacent to me! Ruling: allow it, or no?

[sblock]Answer: RAW = not allowed, however many DM's including myself would allow it. The "right" answer is "whatever your first instincts told you to rule". The "wrong" answer is "stop, look it up for five minutes, then get into a discussion with the player about whether its allowed for another five minutes ..." by which time, you've lost your players.

The point is, its not the ruling that matters, its the fun and fairness of the ruling, and the speed and confidence with which you made the ruling, that matter ... and bonus points if you describe whether it works or not in terms of the dragon's actions in response to the power rather than in rules terminology.[/sblock]

You don't have to pre-plan to tweak the modules. Your players will run right off the "expected" train tracks, anyways.

The key is being able to adjudicate, adapt, and improvise to provide challenging fun for your players anyways.

My last two sessions, my players have scampered quickly beyond the encounters I'd prepped and mapped for the session ... but if they could tell that, it was only from the fact that my "set up the encounter" descriptions were a little less detailed. I still "knew" - or appeared to! - what was off the map where they'd gone, and there were still encounters, conversations, and challenges which beset them there.

Improvise, improvise, improvise!

. . .

As for "things to watch out for", the thing I'd say is "force your characters to be specific" - and remember its always okay to buy time with questions!

For example, orcs have just attacked the village to the north. The PCs have escaped to the next village south. I describe them arriving at the outskirts of the village, describe a fairly empty street, and ask what they want to do .. fully expecting and prepared with material for answers like "I demand to see the mayor," and "I try to find the captain of the guard", but also prepped for "I find an inn", "I go to the store to buy provisions", even "I look for a saucy wench".

One of my players says "I make a Diplomacy check to try and convince the people to start building a wall! The orcs are coming!"

So. If I allow him to roll the dice with that, I'm doing the entire game a disservice: he's using "diplomacy" to talk to .. whom exactly? And he's offering them .. what exactly?

If he's a high-charisma, trained-in-diplomacy character, allowing him to roll the dice risks him coming up with a great roll, and then him expecting that that means that he's got the people energized in building a wall.

So you need to stop him before he rolls - or tell him before the dice stop rolling, "hold on a second" .. and then ask him questions. Ideally, ask him who he's talking to. Describe the scene in more detail. Take a moment to drill down, to get more specific - he can't simply mobilize a major wall-building initiative with a single Diplomacy die roll!!

While he's getting specific, you're thinking about how you want to run this unexpected side encounter. You're on the spur of the moment, so you might decide, "Uhhh .. skill challenge, .. 6 success before 3 failures ... fairly hard I guess? ...bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, and .. history? .. sure .. uhhh.. failure results in somebody reporting the rabble-rousing to the local authorities, success requires getting some big men mobilized, and .. maybe when it gets to 2 failures, or 5 successes, I bring the mayor or the captain of the guard into the conversation, kinda like I have already prepared."

By the end of his more-detailed description, he's gotten specific, he's talking to one specific housewife he sees in the street, and you've got an idea of how this is going to work mechanically.

If he rolls high enough, maybe you have her tell him she'll send her son over to help him. If he fails, she hurries off in fear. Either way, he's still standing in a fairly empty street trying to roust up wall-building ... and you move on to the next character - "And what do you do, Bob?" - so as to prevent our rabble-rousing wall-builder from dominating the session for the next.

(IMO, the "original flaw" in this example was not the player deciding to try to get a wall built - that's awesome! The flaw was, him telling me "I make a diplomacy check to ..." ... as the DM, you want that transaction rephrased, so that he tells you what he wants to do, and you tell him what skill check that is, when to roll dice, etc.)