A question on the Raise Dead ritual

[TheLordWinter]

So the Raise Dead ritual specifically mentions you need "...a part of the corpse of a creature..." does this mean that upon completion of the ritual the target is wholly restored or that you've simply brought back to life what you have?

An example: As you're fleeing a dungeon an ally stumbles into a pit where the walls are closing. You catch his hand before he completely falls in but aren't strong enough to pull him out. Soon you're only left holding your ally's hand - will the Raise Dead ritual fully restore his body or are you just going to restore life to a hand, which will then summarily re-die?

 

[Dunamin]

It seems pretty clear to me that the intent is to restore the subject to life in one piece. Why would you have the ritual designed to screw player's over?

 

[Mort_Q]

Why would you have the ritual designed to screw player's over?

I guess some people just have mean DMs... like the people that think the powers that grant a free save should kill you faster...

 

[Nim]

An example: As you're fleeing a dungeon an ally stumbles into a pit where the walls are closing. You catch his hand before he completely falls in but aren't strong enough to pull him out. Soon you're only left holding your ally's hand - will the Raise Dead ritual fully restore his body or are you just going to restore life to a hand, which will then summarily re-die?

Depending on the timing, this one could also leave you asking whether it counts if the body part was removed the body before death

 

[Exquisite Dead Guy]

So the Raise Dead ritual specifically mentions you need "...a part of the corpse of a creature..." does this mean that upon completion of the ritual the target is wholly restored or that you've simply brought back to life what you have?

Perhaps you get "noth’g but ye liveliest Awfulness."

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Hmmm, and what happens to the rest of the body? Does it vanish and reconstitute itself as the newly raised body, or does it remain where it was and a whole new body is formed from the piece used?

If it remainder of the body still exists and the raised person dies again within 30 days of his first death, can that older body be used to raise him again, or does the body part have to be from the freshly killed body?

Just thinking crazy now - party member is concerned about being completely anhilated, and therefore not able to be raised, so they cut off a bit of finger to have in safekeeping. Maybe a regeneration ritual could be used to regrow it afterwards.

I could see a new business venture in this:

Come to Ye Olde Body Banke. Deposit a portion of your body to be kept safe for use in the event of your untimely death, whereupon you can be raised. You just need to make a new deposit once every thirty days to keep your account active. With the Platinum Package you get free Regeneration of the body part with each deposit. We are convenitenly located within most Point of Light locations. Ask about our easy payment plans.

 

[JohnSnow]

Just thinking crazy now - party member is concerned about being completely anhilated, and therefore not able to be raised, so they cut off a bit of finger to have in safekeeping. Maybe a regeneration ritual could be used to regrow it afterwards.

I could see a new business venture in this:

Come to Ye Olde Body Banke. Deposit a portion of your body to be kept safe for use in the event of your untimely death, whereupon you can be raised. You just need to make a new deposit once every thirty days to keep your account active. With the Platinum Package you get free Regeneration of the body part with each deposit. We are convenitenly located within most Point of Light locations. Ask about our easy payment plans.

I think all these questions are proof-positive that the body part should have to be attached to the body when it becomes a corpse.

Here's the theory: when the body dies, the soul maintains an attachment to any part of the body. Any other remaining pieces should disintegrate when the person is resurrected.

Or perhaps they become grisly curiosities. How do you think it would feel to find your own severed head?

 

[catsclaw227]

Also, if the rest of the body is still in the pit and someone else comes a long and casts a Raise Dead ritual, what happens then?

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Also, if the rest of the body is still in the pit and someone else comes a long and casts a Raise Dead ritual, what happens then?

I would have to say nothing should happen, the person is alive. If I were to somehow be DMing an odd situation where this made sense, I would add some flavor where the person feels an odd sensation, like someone was trying to pull them out of their own skin, and for a moment they see a ghostly image of the place where they had once died and the face of the person casting the ritual over their former body.

 

[Korgoth]

What counts as a part of the body?

Scenario: Rudgar the Fighter gets eaten by a Behemoth. And I mean eaten like a Jurassic Park n00b. The party wants to raise him. So they wait for the Behemoth to poop. Then they sift through and find an undigestible bit, like a tooth or maybe a piece of gristle.

Can they raise him?

 

[Vrecknidj]

Carve up the body, take different parts to different areas, do several rituals, and see what happens.

Dave

 

[Blackeagle]

Or perhaps they become grisly curiosities. How do you think it would feel to find your own severed head?

Ooh, creepy.

I like it!

 

[TheLordWinter]

It seems pretty clear to me that the intent is to restore the subject to life in one piece. Why would you have the ritual designed to screw player's over?

Because it's been that way in previous editions, where something more powerful like Regeneration was required to put a person fully back together post-mortum before you tried to resurrect them (well, raise them. Resurrect did that for you).

It does, as shown, pose some interesting questions. Can you then find alternate versions of your own corpse? What happens to your soul when there are two bodies attempting to be raised at the same time?

The ritual also specifically mentions the subject is free of "Any temporary conditions at the time of death, but permanent conditions remain."

Based upon what we've seen, something like losing an eye would be a permanent condition. Yet based upon this, if you recovered a friend's body and were to deocularize it (for use of a prettier term in reference to eye-gouging), then would the corpse return to life with or without eyes? If he was missing an eye pre-mortum, would he have both upon resurrection?

 

[Heselbine]

What counts as a part of the body?

Scenario: Rudgar the Fighter gets eaten by a Behemoth. And I mean eaten like a Jurassic Park n00b. The party wants to raise him. So they wait for the Behemoth to poop. Then they sift through and find an undigestible bit, like a tooth or maybe a piece of gristle.

Can they raise him?

I love this thread.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

Or perhaps they become grisly curiosities. How do you think it would feel to find your own severed head?

I am SO stealing this.

 

[Heselbine]

Bear in mind that in 4e there are three constituent parts to a person. The body, the spirit and the animus(?). I think I got that right but that's from memory. It was in the 'Wizards Presents' books - does it not talk about this stuff in the books (which I haven't got yet).

There might be various body parts, but once raise dead is carried out, the spirit and animus are reunited with the body. Raise dead can't be carried out on a missing finger because you can't divide the incorporeal parts.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

What counts as a part of the body?

Scenario: Rudgar the Fighter gets eaten by a Behemoth. And I mean eaten like a Jurassic Park n00b. The party wants to raise him. So they wait for the Behemoth to poop. Then they sift through and find an undigestible bit, like a tooth or maybe a piece of gristle.

Can they raise him?

I had something similar happen in an early 3.x game. The party ranger got snatched by a wyvern, killed, taken to the wyvern's lair and eaten. The rest of the party tracked down the wyvern and..ah..sifted for the ranger's remains to take back and get rezzed. I thought it funny enough that I let it happen.

 

[TheLordWinter]

Bear in mind that in 4e there are three constituent parts to a person. The body, the spirit and the animus(?). I think I got that right but that's from memory. It was in the 'Wizards Presents' books - does it not talk about this stuff in the books (which I haven't got yet).

There might be various body parts, but once raise dead is carried out, the spirit and animus are reunited with the body. Raise dead can't be carried out on a missing finger because you can't divide the incorporeal parts.

Of course this then means that your soulless shell of a body is left in a villain's lair. Which could easily be animated as a golem or some such. Imagine returning to the dungeon to face down the wizard only to find he's completely moved house - and there are some awful rumours spreading about you back in town...