D&D 5E A quick run to the top!

[Sunseeker]

I have a campaign running atm, and we do fairly long sessions (last one was almost 12 hours). So far in about 3 sessions (each about 10-14 hours) we've made it from level 1 to level 16. Yes that does seem kinda fast doesn't it? Well I went back through and with my roughly calculated CRs, random events pulled straight from the book (including a nearly lethal fight against an ancient silver dragon who, although not played smartly, was using my "Feral Dragon" template and dealt double damage), the XP actually lines up. I was a little surprised at this, since I reward levels on the basis of completing in-game goals rather than simply killing stuff. Some of the fights were hard. Some of the fights were easy, depending on the type of monsters, their relative damage output and so on.

Anyway, this isn't a wholly bad thing. The general basis of the game is actually geared towards what the MMO world would call "end game content". That is the ancient dragon lords of the world are awakening from a relative slumber and they're all absurdly powerful, customized creatures who rank about on par with some prior editions demi-gods. Beyond that there are some actual gods in the world; and the intent is that the players will have the ability to support, fight or attempt to evade the return of these near-gods to the world.

So I'm not really concerned that my players are nearly "max" level. There are ways to continue on from there (multiclassing, effectively creating gestalt characters), as well as a custom advancement path allowing players to earn, steal and otherwise gain powers from these dragon lords beyond the limits of their humanoid forms. I guess essentially I'm running an Epic-Level game that uses the early levels to basically lay out of the plot and events that set this all in motion, and give the players some hand in shaping these events.

So I suppose my question is to you, what is your thoughts on high-level games? I do find I need to create a lot of content by hand, but on the same turn, I find that more appropriate than attempting to fit "by-the-book" monsters to a custom game. On the note of it being an epic-level game, does anyone know of any good 3PP material that adds "epic levels" to 5th edition? I wouldn't mind having some stuff available for when we inevitably reach that point. I really liked 4E's Epic Destinies, I was less a fan of 3rd's 21+ content.

 

[Green1]

High level games are really fun. And... deep. Problem is, it can be an air traffic control panel for newer players. A lot of DMs on the boards, though, are strictly low level folks from reading the boards, so can not really appreciate it. I ran a game that did get to the 30s across 3 editions. Even to this day, I always start new games above 1st level. But, I had a great, years long group which is a rarity. Most groups eventually fall apart way before then.

My only deal would be if the whole thing is about "endgame", why not start out at "endgame" and just roll max level characters? Even if your sessions are long (12 hours? Moridin H. Christ!) it would seem to me to be a pain to have to level up character sheets every 2 hours. Not to mention the drawing up necessary to cover that level range in such a short time frame unless you are railroading quite a bit.

Why not just start max? Wasn't one of the flaws of MMOs the grind? Games eventually fall apart, so use those sessions doing epic stuff. 12 hour sessions are unsustainable unless you are a student or in the nursing home/ retired. If they can navigate a max level sheet, should be fun!

 

[Sunseeker]

My only deal would be if the whole thing is about "endgame", why not start out at "endgame" and just roll max level characters? Even if your sessions are long (12 hours? Moridin H. Christ!) it would seem to me to be a pain to have to level up character sheets every 2 hours. Not to mention the drawing up necessary to cover that level range in such a short time frame unless you are railroading quite a bit.

Partly because I find that starting low adds character investment. Also, until my players requested otherwise, I always award levels at the end of a session, so go home and do your leveling. Also, starting at 20 leads to a lot of "builds" and even when players have pre-planned ideas, I find that getting them to start at 1 can change their mind.

I mostly pre-plan my world layouts, I have a general "world map" with major locations and some local maps for relevant details, and the small stuff is often theater-of-the-mind. I've given up actually drawing out mazes and tunnels and instead rely on skill checks to "not get lost" while being descriptive with the results of successes and failures.

Why not just start max? Wasn't one of the flaws of MMOs the grind? Games eventually fall apart, so use those sessions doing epic stuff. 12 hour sessions are unsustainable unless you are a student or in the nursing home/ retired. If they can navigate a max level sheet, should be fun!

The players aren't aware of where the "endgame" starts. So starting at 1 allows them to invest in the world they're going to save, conquer, or destroy or plain ignore. I include "epic stuff" all along, because otherwise players would be reading a novel on the various events leading up to the endgame. As it is, instead of reading the story, they get to play it. Which is fun for me and them. The only "grind" in my game is how I slow down exploration with daily checks (fortunately most travel never lasts more than a week), which runs the risk of a variety of random encounters in the world. Otherwise, everything they're doing that isn't a random encounter is relevant to the endgame, and will be taken into account for the final reckoning.

 

[Green1]

Makes sense. And, the XP would line up because I think the XP is tuned for an average 1-3 encounters per session at 3 hours per session. 36 hours would be about 12 sessions or if the typical once per week session, level 16 in 3 months. Though I think if these were not marathon, the XP total would be less. Not many DMs would let folks level up twice a game and cap XPs per session.

 

[Sunseeker]

Makes sense. And, the XP would line up because I think the XP is tuned for an average 1-3 encounters per session at 3 hours per session. 36 hours would be about 12 sessions or if the typical once per week session, level 16 in 3 months. Though I think if these were not marathon, the XP total would be less. Not many DMs would let folks level up twice a game and cap XPs per session.

I don't really understand why, I mean if they're working hard and they earn their rewards, what reason would I have to deny them? Skill, hard work, persistence, these get your father IRL, shouldn't they get your further in-game?

My biggest limitations is simply that I only have so much content planned out each week!

 

[Green1]

I don't really understand why, I mean if they're working hard and they earn their rewards, what reason would I have to deny them? Skill, hard work, persistence, these get your father IRL, shouldn't they get your further in-game?

My biggest limitations is simply that I only have so much content planned out each week!

Not really to deny them. Mostly because of the XP budget of most games and how XP is rewarded. Most DMs I know or knew, the XP was given at the end of the session with the exception of rarities like incarnations of The Deck of Many Things. Not each encounter. Yeah, it was possible to go up 2 levels at very low levels but you were not leveling for a while after that if XP is divided correctly.

But, then again, a fast level game does have some interesting stuff to it. But I hear you, the content AND keeping interest/attendance combined is A LOT of work. But, hey. 3 sessions! Whoot!

 

[Green1]

But.. and let me say this....

I would FAR prefer a game like this in 5e over any edition. 4e would give me pause with modifier/ too much HP solo creature hell and 3e epic I still start twitching uncontrollably from the calculus and 50 tons of +1 feats to keep up with.

High level is nice in this edition and an actual pleasure to run. .

 

[Sunseeker]

But.. and let me say this....

I would FAR prefer a game like this in 5e over any edition. 4e would give me pause with modifier/ too much HP solo creature hell and 3e epic I still start twitching uncontrollably from the calculus and 50 tons of +1 feats to keep up with.

High level is nice in this edition and an actual pleasure to run. .

Yeah, I dreaded making high-level 3E stuff, so I mostly made it up....which isn't much different from how I did it in 4th or 5th, but it is much more acceptable in those editions than it was in 3E.

 

[Green1]

Yeah, I dreaded making high-level 3E stuff, so I mostly made it up....which isn't much different from how I did it in 4th or 5th, but it is much more acceptable in those editions than it was in 3E.

I am guilty of that.

"Now WHAT was his bonus?"

...looking at a sheet from 4 games ago that has no bearing on the current because I REALLY did not have the time to custom do a 3e 30th level caster and am really just rolling a dice and giving the result I feel is what would happen but don't want to be "outed"..

"Plus 30.... and minus X for claw, claw muliattack and weapon focus (claw).... It's a savage species custom build. Ya know I love you guys."

Distract with a beer.

"Um... okay"

....write down number so I remember it just in case someone is keeping track of my open dice rolls. Remembering the previous DM I took over for back in the day got accused of "cheating" because he rolled in secret and probably did what he wanted in dice results and his Big Baddie wasn't drawn up like mine wasn't. But, shhhhh...

 

[Hussar]

I have a campaign running atm, and we do fairly long sessions (last one was almost 12 hours). So far in about 3 sessions (each about 10-14 hours) we've made it from level 1 to level 16. Yes that does seem kinda fast doesn't it? Well I went back through and with my roughly calculated CRs, random events pulled straight from the book (including a nearly lethal fight against an ancient silver dragon who, although not played smartly, was using my "Feral Dragon" template and dealt double damage), the XP actually lines up. I was a little surprised at this, since I reward levels on the basis of completing in-game goals rather than simply killing stuff. Some of the fights were hard. Some of the fights were easy, depending on the type of monsters, their relative damage output and so on./snip.

Not that I'm disputing your numbers, but, wow, that's some fast play there. That's about 40 hours of play (give or take) and 16 levels. So, you're blasting through a level every 4 hours of play. Man, that's rocket fast. How do you get through so many encounters so quickly? I can see that sort of pace at very low levels - 1-3 for example. But, 12-16?

We level about a quarter that speed. About 10-12 hours of game play for each level. Give or take.

I'm impressed.