D&D General A Rant: DMing is not hard.

[Seramus]

I can't remember the last time I saw someone use it to mean exhausting.

In my experience people tend to use words like exhausting, tiring, strenuous, etc. to describe tasks like moving those rocks across the road, not the word hard.

I had a hard day at work.

 

[AlViking]

-oops-

 

[Maxperson]

I mean, pithy aphorisms aside, this is just wrong. The idea that you can be the top of something by only doing that one thing and not learning how to do any related activity is just not true.

I'm the best guitarist I can be because I do nothing but play Van Halen. Heck, do nothing but play rock and roll and you're still not even cracking the top 100 best guitarists you could be.

I'm the best writer I could be because I do nothing but write iambic pentameter. Or Haiku.

Good grief. One of my students is one of the top ranked calligraphers in the country. She travels all over teaching Japanese calligraphy. She's won a shed load of awards.

And she STILL constantly learns new styles and techniques. 78 years old and she's on an airplane every month to go somewhere and learn new techniques.

The idea that you can be the best or even really good at anything by only studying that thing and there is no value and nothing to be learned by studying related things is just wrong. Every single pedagogical study in the past century says that this is wrong. There is nothing that supports this idea. It runs contrary to every single training method for pretty much anything you care to look at. I'm absolutely astonished to see the strident defense of this. It's mind boggling.

Heh. My Similar Threads at the bottom of the page returned this @Snarf Zagyg thread:

D&D General Thread 'The Best Advice for New DMs I Can Give'

Nov 12, 2024

So I was looking at the other thread about the "new" Rule 0, and I noticed that some people were going into the usual conversations about the balance of authority at a D&D table, or the issues with a bad DM/GM (hereafter, I'll just write DM), and so on. And I thought to myself, "Self, a long time ago I wrote about some good advice in general that I think also works for new DMs that I think is worth putting out again."

Normally, advice is worth what you pay for it (and you're not paying my hourly rate), but I think that what follows is helpful, Even though it isn't specific to DMing...

• Snarf Zagyg
• Replies: 24
• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

• 
• 

This pretty much nails it.

Your student is still focused on techniques of her specialty, though. She isn't a sprinter learning rugby and basketball in order to be a better sprinter. She's a sprinter learning new sprinting techniques. Being a general DM isn't the same as being a D&D DM.

The new techniques you learn will be different from those D&D teaches and uses, which can be better or worse for the players, depending on the players' preferences.

For instance, player facing games teach the DMs of those games different techniques than D&D uses. You can bring some or all of those new techniques into D&D and give the players more control over what happens than D&D does. This will, however, alter the feel of the game. And not all players will enjoy the new feel and will balk at it.

In my game I tried several different ways to give the players more player facing agency. Each and every time my group either completely ignored those ways, or else asked me for examples of how they could be used and then just picked from an example I provided. It was an utter failure, because my group didn't want their D&D to feel different and didn't like those player facing DMing techniques. I've since given up on making my game more player facing, because the group doesn't want it. Your group might be different and thrive on that sort of change.

 

[AlViking]

You can learn all things about running that one system and master those things better than someone who spreads out his learning over multiple systems. There will be techniques used in other systems that can be brought over to D&D and used, even if they weren't intended for use with D&D.

For some people those different techniques will improve their D&D experience. For others those different techniques will detract from their D&D experience. Which a person prefers is just a matter of taste, which is why saying or implying that being a generalist is the best way to do it is getting so much pushback. It's not objectively the best way, nor objectively the worst way. It's just a way and people can decide for themselves which they like better.

When I asked about what specific things people learned from other games I was hoping to have a discussion of actual details - for example if another game makes exploration more interesting, how does it do that? Are there specific mechanics involved not just a focus on exploration? Is there anything that can be used in a D&D game that isn't covered by the rules? There's a ton of stuff that the core books don't cover, things that I've learned from previous editions, non-game resources, other DMs, things not directly addressed by the books I came up with. I was hoping to have a constructive conversation. Obviously I failed miserably.

Perhaps this is another thread, but are there any mechanics or rules you've gotten from other games that are useful in D&D? Any interesting house rules you've added, no matter the source?

 

[AlViking]

Your student is still focused on techniques of her specialty, though. She isn't a sprinter learning rugby and basketball in order to be a better sprinter. She's a sprinter learning new sprinting techniques. Being a general DM isn't the same as being a D&D DM.

The new techniques you learn will be different from those D&D teaches and uses, which can be better or worse for the players, depending on the players' preferences.

For instance, player facing games teach the DMs of those games different techniques than D&D uses. You can bring some or all of those new techniques into D&D and give the players more control over what happens than D&D does. This will, however, alter the feel of the game. And not all players will enjoy the new feel and will balk at it.

In my game I tried several different ways to give the players more player facing agency. Each and every time my group either completely ignored those ways, or else asked me for examples of how they could be used and then just picked from an example I provided. It was an utter failure, because my group didn't want their D&D to feel different and didn't like those player facing DMing techniques. I've since given up on making my game more player facing, because the group doesn't want it. Your group might be different and thrive on that sort of change.

So for those of us not familiar with player facing - or think we know but don't want to get it wrong - what does player facing mean? What did you try to implement?

 

[Hussar]

In my experience people tend to use words like exhausting, tiring, strenuous, etc. to describe tasks like moving those rocks across the road, not the word hard.

Bailing hay is hard work.

Digging ditches is hard work.

Picking tobacco is (extremely) hard work.

Running a marathon is hard.

It's been a hard day's night. I should be sleeping like a log.

Do I need more examples?

 

[Hussar]

For instance, player facing games teach the DMs of those games different techniques than D&D uses. You can bring some or all of those new techniques into D&D and give the players more control over what happens than D&D does. This will, however, alter the feel of the game. And not all players will enjoy the new feel and will balk at it.

But, here's the thing. Without experiencing other systems, you could not have tried to improve your game by bringing in player facing techniques. That it didn't work with a particular group isn't all that relevant. The fact that you had an ability to do something that someone who refuses to learn any other system can never attempt means that you had the potential to run a better game, but, it turned out that it wasn't better for that group.

So, unless not only do you refuse to run any other system, but also, you must never play with anyone other than a very select group of players forever, you are, in fact a better DM for trying to improve your game than someone who refuses to try to learn new systems.

 

[Hussar]

Your student is still focused on techniques of her specialty, though

Oh, well... sort of? She also had to learn dance in order to do performative calligraphy and learn choreography in order to form a troupe for performative calligraphy. And, I don't think you quite understand just how broad the art is if you think that it's all very similar. I'll be the first to admit to my ignorance of the ins and outs of her art, but, I do understand that there's rather a large difference between the styles, brushes, and the performative aspects of the art as well.

 

[Hussar]

So for those of us not familiar with player facing - or think we know but don't want to get it wrong - what does player facing mean? What did you try to implement?

Hang on though. You have repeatedly insisted that there is zero value in learning anything from other systems. After all, you are the best driver of your car and learning to drive a truck would in no way improve your driving skills. You have repeatedly stated that you will not learn other systems. So, why are you asking now?

Or, to put it another way, instead of asking for concrete examples and then constantly questioning those examples, why not actually pick up the books and see for yourself how these work.

AH, by the way, the idea of Backgrounding comes from Chronica Feudalis. I knew I'd remember the name of that game.

 

[Cergorach]

Anything is hard when you haven't done that before. Be that DMing, making a bookcase, riding a bike, etc. And while you can try learning by just diving into the deep end with zero prep, that is probably not going to be fun for anyone involved. You need to prep, what tools you need, how to use them, how to design, how to finish.

And not every new DM is like every other new DM. I started playing with a pretty darned good DM, when we wanted to start playing D&D with a completely new group, I was the DM. I made my own mistakes (some still very iconic in our group), gave my own twist on things, and the other players learned from me and they made their own mistakes/twists when it came to their turn of DMing. We essentially learned by apprenticeship...

At the end on the 80s, the amount of advice books was limited, we didn't really have the Internet, and the availability of RPG books was extremely limited for us living in the Netherlands. So there were almost no resources, beyond maybe an article or column in a Dragon, Dungeon, White Dwarf, etc. But, we being kids, we didn't have much money to buy all those expensive imports, so our sources were very limited. I don't know how well DMing D&D would have gone if none of us had ever played a RPG before. Probably our best previous experience would have been HeroQuest...

But due there not being the Internet and RPGs being a tiny niche, the expectations were not high either, so we could fail without anyone even batting an eye. These days due to the Internet and the YouTube popular webseries played by actors, expectations are sky high, so high they are unrealistic. It's as if when playing 'cowboys' your acting skills while shooting or being shot would be judged by how well you compared to John Wayne or Clint Eastwood... Now, maybe among friends the bar isn't so high and people are willing to be less harsh, but many folks starting out with randos either in person or online tend to be not as invested and can be harsh or just plain rude when the DM does not meet their unrealistic expectations. I've played with randos at the gaming club in my teens and early twenties, there have been great experiences/people there and not so great experiences/people, but in no case would I have ever thought to be harsh or rude. I was generally quiet, on the younger side in the group, I just watched and learned.

So DMing can be hard, depending on your experience, expectations, your social and creative skills, etc. But just because something is hard, doesn't mean it's impossible or you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. Reading a good book about DMing isn't wasted time imho, but you don't really need a whole collection. There's also many, many YT videos that fill the same purpose, and there are podcasts as well that you can listen to. And people have been selling us stuff for 50+ years for RPG stuff, be it new books, now systems, dice, miniatures, storage solutions, tables, LARP stuff, magazines, subscriptions, etc. This is not new, the hobby is now just bigger then it's ever been and it's easier to reach people through the Internet, so more people trying to sell you stuff should not be a surprise.