A Realization (maybe an epiphany?) about D&D

[Timeboxer]

I like rules. I especially like the KSSHRKTARRRGH sound they make when I break them.

I like D&D 3.5, though.

 

[The_Gunslinger658]

D&D=Pokemon?

Hi-

3.5 gets very, very complicated when characters get above 10th level, I should know, my players are between 14th and 18th level and let me state, running a multiple cambat encounter took us around two hours to complete, lots of number crunching on the players part and for the DM, trying to run 4 17th level NPC's, one a Druid, A Wizard, A warforged Paladin and a Ranger/Druid was a real challange unto itself. Lots of pokemon action taking place as the Inn the Battle was taking place at became full of all kinds of furry goodness.
The battle was alot of fun!

This Campaign is almost at an end but do I want to DM 3.5 for another campaign? I'll be thinking on it cause I really am feeling burnt out, but I have to suck it up and drive on to finish this current campaign. Ya I'm waffling but I really like 3.5 but I really hate 3.5.


Scott

 

[sniffles]

I think (hope) that all of us accept that no ruleset is perfect (except maybe Diaglo with OD&D(1974) ) and does everything well - it's more a question of which tradeoffs do you want to accept.

You've got it right on the nose, MonsterMash. There is no perfect rule system.

As a player who's not good at recalling detailed rules, I do sometimes find 3.5 exasperating in its complexity. But I find exasperating issues in every rules system I've ever tried, and I've tried quite a few. If you think the current D&D rules are too restrictive, try Fantasy Hero. Not only can you perform only a limited number of actions in a turn, but the characters -always- take their actions in the same sequence. At least D&D's feats offer you a lot of variety - almost too much, in fact!

 

[Emiricol]

Sometimes I'm in the mood for D&D. Other times (particularly in the last year or two) I've found myself again reaching outside of D&D for gaming. When I want to play a game that is what D&D is, I play D&D. When I want to play a game that is not like D&D, I choose to play another system instead of gutting 3.5.

All of which is to say, yeah, sometimes I feel like you do, Talath. I'm really enjoying the Midnight campaign I play in that uses the Blue Rose mechanics. I'm really enjoying the Midnight campaign I play in that uses Riddle of Steel mechanics. I'm even enjoying Midnight using D&D But they all have different feels. (Not to mention the games NOT in Midnight...)

 

[John Morrow]

Too many rules.

[...]

I feel like 3e and 3.5 has too many rules. It's just me, in that I feel like I shouldn't have to wade through a book to find out how to disarm someone, or what a sleep spell specifically affect. I feel like I want to wing it; if its not covered, I feel like I have a keen enough mind and grasp of balance and the rules, enough that I could wing it, and wing it well.

Personally, if I'm playing a rules-heavy system like D&D 3.5 or the Hero System or GURPS or whatever, I want to be able to look in the book and find out how to disarm someone or what a sleep spell specifically does. I want the rules to provide answers. If I want to wing it, I'm not going to use a rules-heavy system like D&D 3.5. I'm going to use a system like Fudge that's designed specifically for "wing it" play.

Anyway, how many people feel that now, years after 3e is out, that maybe its either the right or the wrong game for D&D?

Until I started running a D&D 3.5 game about a year ago, almost nobody in my group had really played D&D in about a decade. Other than that, my group either used the Hero System (because it had rules that covered everything) or a lightweight homebrew system, Fudge, or the relatively light Warhammer FRP. I also started playing in a D&D 3.5 game with another group. Personally, I like it quite a bit. If I'm going to use a rules-heavy system, I want one that's good at what it's designed to do and I think D&D 3.5 is good at what it's designed to do.

You might want to consider Warhammer FRP. The first edition (I haven't had time to read the second edition) could be effectively run as a rules-light "wing it" game.

 

[John Morrow]

Yair - per RAW you can indeed Move & Ready in the same turn.

Yair -> Check under the "Invisibility" header in the DMG glossary.There's a rule called "groping about":

And this is exactly what I want in a rules-heavy system. It answers questions about how to do things in a somewhat reasonable or satisfying way. I've had the same experience with the Hero System. Whenever someone has been unhappy with a GM's "wing it" call and we took the time to look into the rules, they generally had a way to handle the situation in a way that satisfied everyone.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I can see his point. Earlier editions were simpler in that the rules were modular. You could easily not use a rule and it did not break the game. Whereas in 3e, dropping AoOs would seriously affect the balance of the entire 3e system.

Yes, but his point was that 3e is not essentially what he feels is D&D - at least, that's what I got from reading his post. As I said, 3e is more an update of AD&D rather than those simpler forms of D&D, which existed concurrently with AD&D. In its way, C&C would be more along the lines of an update of that version of D&D. One can say one doesn't think this edition doesn't feel like D&D, but I think it really depends on what version of D&D one is comparing 3e to.

As for modularity...I dunno. We've seen d20/OGL games that dispense with AoO's, and C&C itself got rid of feats and skills as well as much of 3e's combat system. I know there are criticisms of C&C (as well as other d20 mutations), but I think that the existence of these games proves that 3e could be as modular as older editions. It just might take a bit more work.

 

[Lalato]

A couple of other systems you might want to look at are...

Green Ronin's True20 (featured in Blue Rose) is obviously a d20 variant. You may not like the default setting, but the rules are tight.

HeroQuest... This game uses a d20... and only a d20... to resolve everything. Basically every roll is an opposed check. It's a great system, but the setting can be a little wonky. The best part of this game is character creation... write a 100 word paragraph to describe your character. Easy.

--sam

 

[TGryph]

HARP it!

Give HARP a whirl...great system, one rulebook for everything, simple mechanics, flexible as hell, and east to convert a D&D campagin over to. $10 for the PDF, great customer support. When I want to play a class-level system, it gets my nod every time.

TGryph

 

[Storyteller01]

Dungeons & Dragons [current edition] is the one true game. All previous editions were just attempts to achieve this level of excellence.

Quasqueton

dunno. FFG's splat book camapign worlds went a long way towards simplifying the system. If you played them, you'd notice multiple skills compiled into single skills, feat chains reduced or disallowed, weapons refitted to fit the camapign and save time (ie: smaller list of weapons and armor choices, to start with) etc. They're actually fun to play, and the reduced information load really helps maintain the 'fun' factor.