D&D (2024) A Reintroduction to Greyhawk

[OptionalRule]

I just published a blog post about Greyhawk's return as the default setting for D&D 2024, and I thought some of you might be interested.

I dive a bit into Greyhawk's history and explore what this comeback might mean for our games. I've tried to cover both the exciting possibilities and potential challenges - like how the new rules might clash with Greyhawk's classic gritty feel, or how the Bastion system could interact with the Flanaess' political landscape.

One thing I've always loved is how collaborative Greyhawk's creation was from the start. It's pretty cool to see how many of D&D's original crew left their mark on the setting. The community acts like shared-worldbuilding is a new invention, but it's been in the DNA of the hobby since the start to me.

I'm curious to hear what you all think about Greyhawk's return. Are you excited? Skeptical? What are your hopes or concerns? I've got mixed feelings myself, I love the political intrigue and the grittier nature of OG Greyhawk, but doubtful that can be maintained with the 2024 edition of DnD.

If you're interested in checking it out, you can find the post here.

 

[darjr]

It’s not the default, is it? Just the example in the DMG.
Hopefully opened up on the DMsGuild

 

[OptionalRule]

It’s not the default, is it? Just the example in the DMG.
Hopefully opened up on the DMsGuild

It's the setting included in detail in the core books. If that isn't default, what is?

 

[darjr]

It's the setting included in detail in the core books. If that isn't default, what is?

They’ve said it isn’t the default, I believe.

The metaverse is.

 

[TiQuinn]

I'd like to see what is done with Greyhawk, but I'm keeping expectations low primarily because we already know that the coming year is going to shift focus back onto Forgotten Realms. The DMG can't really hope to include all the updates of Greyhawk that fans may want beyond a very surface level, and I feel that at best it's going to be a reintroduction of details that are already largely out there. The difference is likely going to be in areas that may rankle long term fans. For example, the highly racist, very white Scarlet Brotherhood ruling over the jungle areas and enslaving or dominating the natives of those lands. I cannot imagine that depiction surviving as-is in 2024, and yet, being Greyhawk's Nazis were the entire purpose of the Scarlet Brotherhood.

One of the things that I've always had trouble reconciling in my mind with Greyhawk is that on the one hand, you have very strongly defined nation states that on the brink of war with each other, which sets the tone for Greyhawk being about political intrigue, but then you have some clear anachronisms to that view, such as Murlynd, a dimension hopping demilord who made his way to Earth's Wild West and came back looking like Alan Ladd from Shane complete with six shooters. Or the secret dungeon levels of Castle Greyhawk that lead to dimensions based on Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland. Or the crashed spaceship of Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Or the over the top deathtrap dungeon White Plume Mountain. In a way, Greyhawk is both ultra serious swords and sorcery and machinations worthy of Game of Thrones, or its totally whimsical and bounces around genres.

My two cents: I hope they lean into the latter. We need more of the whimsy and zany aspects in settings rather than the dark and dour ones.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's the setting included in detail in the core books. If that isn't default, what is?

The default would be the one they're setting all their adventures in: The Forgotten Realms.

We'll see what's said in Heroes of the Borderlands and the dragon anthology next year. It would be a mild shock if they didn't assume a Forgotten Realms setting (although it sounds like the Borderlands will be a setting-neutral drop-in setting) , especially given the two big Forgotten Realms books coming at the end of 2025.

 

[OptionalRule]

They’ve said it isn’t the default, I believe.

The metaverse is.

I'm not sure I can find that anywhere, they seem pretty explicit in as recent as the DMG overview video from the other day that Greyhawk is the intended place to start, Perkins talking about not wanting to throw new players right into creating their own setting so Greyhawk is what they have to start with.

So again, if that isn't the default, I dont' know what is. Note, that's different from official. Any published setting is official.

 

[OptionalRule]

I'd like to see what is done with Greyhawk, but I'm keeping expectations low primarily because we already know that the coming year is going to shift focus back onto Forgotten Realms. The DMG can't really hope to include all the updates of Greyhawk that fans may want beyond a very surface level, and I feel that at best it's going to be a reintroduction of details that are already largely out there. The difference is likely going to be in areas that may rankle long term fans. For example, the highly racist, very white Scarlet Brotherhood ruling over the jungle areas and enslaving or dominating the natives of those lands. I cannot imagine that depiction surviving as-is in 2024, and yet, being Greyhawk's Nazis were the entire purpose of the Scarlet Brotherhood.

One of the things that I've always had trouble reconciling in my mind with Greyhawk is that on the one hand, you have very strongly defined nation states that on the brink of war with each other, which sets the tone for Greyhawk being about political intrigue, but then you have some clear anachronisms to that view, such as Murlynd, a dimension hopping demilord who made his way to Earth's Wild West and came back looking like Alan Ladd from Shane complete with six shooters. Or the secret dungeon levels of Castle Greyhawk that lead to dimensions based on Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland. Or the crashed spaceship of Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Or the over the top deathtrap dungeon White Plume Mountain. In a way, Greyhawk is both ultra serious swords and sorcery and machinations worthy of Game of Thrones, or its totally whimsical and bounces around genres.

My two cents: I hope they lean into the latter. We need more of the whimsy and zany aspects in settings rather than the dark and dour ones.

I've felt that tonal contracts before myself. I was okay because:

1. I was like 14 when it came out, so I didn't care as much then.
2. I always felt like the Alice in Wonderland parts were fanciful asides and didn't take that serioues.

I loved the political nature of Greyhawk, and this was a direct prototype for Birthright (my favorite 2e setting) to me.

 

[TiQuinn]

I've felt that tonal contracts before myself. I was okay because:

1. I was like 14 when it came out, so I didn't care as much then.
2. I always felt like the Alice in Wonderland parts were fanciful asides and didn't take that serioues.

I loved the political nature of Greyhawk, and this was a direct prototype for Birthright (my favorite 2e setting) to me.

I was very much in the same boat, but now that I'm older, I find those tonal shifts a little distracting.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm not sure I can find that anywhere, they seem pretty explicit in as recent as the DMG overview video from the other day that Greyhawk is the intended place to start, Perkins talking about not wanting to throw new players right into creating their own setting so Greyhawk is what they have to start with.

So again, if that isn't the default, I dont' know what is. Note, that's different from official. Any published setting is official.

Greyhawk is an example to help a DM understand how to homebrew a new setting.

In the 2014 DMs Guide, the Eladrin was an example to help the DM understand how to create new species.