Sadras
Legend
Aye, @Flamestrike is back! 
D&D 5E A Reliable Talent for Expert Stealth
- Thread starter DMZ2112
- Start date
Flamestrike
Legend
Aye, @Flamestrike is back!
I got perma-banned from GitP. The Mods there really suck. I contemplated spamming the site with graphic images for a while in protest, then realized I was a 45 year old man.
It's nice to be back
WaterRabbit
Explorer
The reason why you are disinterested is simply because you are wrong. Let me explain using absurdo ad reductio:
Example 1:
The basis of your argument is that breaking LOS is enough to allow a rogue a change to hide. So all a rogue needs to do is to carry a blanket. He holds up the blanket and boom he can make his stealth check. This might work on toddlers and stupid dogs, but not on any creature with an Int score of 2 or better.
Example 2:
You as the DM have a rogue jump into a box in the middle of the room and make a stealth check. The rogue is a badass so his check is 20 higher than the PCs. Now you have the rogue pop out of the box and sneak attack a player. Do you really think that is going to fly with your players? Even if the rogue drinks a potion of invisibility the players are going to complain -- why because you have just insulted their combined intelligence.
So yes the ability to hide is very much at the DMs discretion based upon the intelligence of the NPCs involved. This is the role of the DM and what makes a TTRPG different than a CRPG which is seemingly how you want to apply the rules.
Example 3:
Watch the movie Scream. Honestly that movie is enough to poke holes in this absurd interpretation of the hiding rules.
You can houserule it all you like that hiding is some sort of mystical ability and that would be fine in your game with your players. However, for the rest of the world, breaking LOS is just the minimum condition necessary for hiding and not the only factor.
Also hiding in combat is totally unnecessary for rogues. All they need to do is get advantage or have another attacker on their target. In most cases, baring the use of magic, fighting in a small room is not going to allow a rogue to effective hide from intelligent foes. So the rogue needs to improve their tactics. Cunning Action has two other bonus actions that can be taken that are much more useful in a combat situation.
Flamestrike also gave a number of good examples that show how to properly adjudicate hiding.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
LOL sure, bud. Has nothing to do with you and others method of argument or repeatedly misreading simple statements.
Ill just go go ahead and block ya now, and greatly improve my online experience.
Flamestrike
Legend
Interestingly toddlers (up to about 7 months of age) lack object permanence. This is why 'Peek-a-boo' works on them.
From their POV, you literally vanish from existence when you cant be observed, and then pop back in when they can observe you again.
Quantum theory currently asserts that this might actually be the real state of the universe, and all humans manage to do (at the age of 7 months) is fool ourselves into viewing the chaos of the universe as a consistent reality in order to interpret the chaos around us (develop memory, which may have a much more profound impact on reality than we assume) and mold that chaos into something we can comprehend.
As in; I know my car is parked downstairs because I remember parking it there (non-observational object permanence), and it's there when I go back to the car, but when I'm not observing it, it's not really 'downstairs' at all. It's only 'downstairs' because I altered reality to make it so.
A little like how an electron does not have both a position or momentum until you measure (observe) the bastard. The electron exists in a state of superposition, both everywhere in the universe, nowhere in the universe, going everywhere and going no-where, all at the same time. You cant meaningfully speak about what an electron is doing (or where it is) until that observation or measurement takes place.
Once you act on the electron (by measuring or observing it), only then does it become an 'electron with a position' or 'an electron with momentum'.
This isnt just semantics; it reflects the actual state of the unobserved electron. Everywhere and nowhere, doing everything and nothing, all at the same time. Until observed.
Sorry Einstein; God does indeed play dice.
WaterRabbit
Explorer
Yes, the last resort of people that cannot use logic. Just plug your ears and scream nay nay nay.
You really need to change you handle then as Bad Wolf doesn't seem correct.
LoL
WaterRabbit
Explorer
What is funny is that I had an experience where I parked my car. Came back later and the car was not where I parked it. It had been moved about 100 feet. I was totally confused as to how that happened. Then I figured out it was my parents pranking me (I was in high school at the time). It was a pretty funny joke.
And yes, Schrodinger's cat.
Flamestrike
Legend
Chill man.
Your argument is flawed. I know people arent pointing it out to you in the nicest way, but its flawed.
The RAW clearly states that in order to attempt to Hide you must 1) Break LOS - AND - 2) DM rules circumstances are appropriate.
Breaking LOS isnt (in itself) enough to attempt to Hide. Its the minimum requirement. After you've broken LOS, the DM gets to make a call if the other circumstances around your hiding attempt, allow the attempt to hide (or render you hiding attempt - behind cover - impossible).
Examples include being closely watched as you crawl into your obvious hiding spot. For mine, that would totally negate your ability to hide in that spot (unless there were other circumstances that might count in your favor - such as a hidden trapdoor or hidden compartment you could slink off behind in that hiding spot).
Generally, in combat, the monsters arent paying that much attention to the child like halfling (and are more focussed on the hairy raging Barbarian with the 6 foot Axe frothing at the mouth and trying to carve them a new orifice, or the Wizard tossing blasts of lightning from his fingers).
That said, when the little cut-throat pops up and shoots him in the privates for 30+ points of sneak attack damage, that likely get's their attention however (making further hiding more difficult, or even flat out impossible if they're watching you closely, and your hiding spot is obvious).
It's a question of context and common sense.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
What part of “I’m disinterested in this thread” is complicated or confusing? I acknowledged your very thorough post, thanked you for not trying to derail with asinine arguments that had nothing to do with anything I said, and stated that the behavior of others in this thread has made me unwilling to engage further. That’s the end of it. Period.
Flamestrike
Legend
The bit where you keep reading it, posting in it anyway, and replying to post quotes.
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