A request for input on the FR Nations and their relative strength

[Edena_of_Neith]

Hmmm ...

Leadership.
Internal Political Cohesion.
Political International Influence.

?

(You know what's funny? A lot of people, when asked what the Forgotten Realms are, will shout: ELMINSTER'S PRIVATE FIEFDOM!!! lol. We are actually trying to define the Realms as they are. LOLOL!)

 

[DM_Matt]

Unfortunately, the city of Shade has fallen as of the novels, most of it's princes slain, and since those novels in particular are likely going to be canon (since they introduced the plot twist in the first place, and that ended up being in the FRCS), that knocks Shade off the list entirely.

Hopefully they won't incorporate that entirely, as I really like the concept/idea of Shade.

Dammit! First Evermeet now this

....grrrrrrr...The novelists are getting really irritating. They need to go out of their way to distinguish the novel world from the game world, beucase what makes a good novel is often NOT what makes for a good game world. If anything, their constant churning out of novels, each of which must have something important happen to make it sufficiently epic, is cuasing way too much change, way too fast.

This is maddening for GMs.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

For the sake of this thread, let's assume the assault on Evermeet, and the assault on the Shade, never occurred.
Let's use these powers as originally presented in the FRCS, and in the 2nd Edition FOR5 Elves of Evermeet.

Let's also assume the assault on Cormyr did not take place (yeah I know, that's straying from the FRCS, but let's do it anyways.)

Let's keep the Mulhorandi assault on Unther, since it shows a decisive change in the balance of power in that region.

 

[Dave Versace]

Some of this would be a judgement call. As for the roles of deities, one of Mulhorand's strength is the very strong support from the Mulhorandi pantheon.

Yep, them's the ones I was thinking of. Thanks for that, William.

Dave

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

That is the one thing I am leaving out of the equation: the direct influence or intervention of dieties.
I appreciate that divine intervention is the norm - it is quite common - in the FR setting.

However, I cannot assign Power Levels to nations under such circumstances - the interference of the dieties scrambles the equation more effectively than electronic countermeasures scrambles enemy radar.
I am assuming a theoretical FR setting where the dieties are not interfering. (I know that's an impossible presumption, but I'm doing it anyways.)

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

A possible template for the FR Power Levels

(I'm fairly sure there are more nations than this. I need more population statistics, too.)

- - -

Aglarond

Population: 1,270,080
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Amn

Population: 2,963,520
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Anauroch

Population: 114,048

(subdivided)

- - -

Baldur's Gate

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

People of the Black Blood

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Calimshan

Population: 5,339,520
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Candlekeep

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Chad Nessad

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Chessenta

Population: 3,386,880
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Chondalwood

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Chondath

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Chult

Population: 440,640

(subdivided)

- - -

Coral Kingdom

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Cormanthor

Population: 154,223

(subdivided)

- - -

Cormyr

Population: 1,360,800
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Cult of the Dragon

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Daggerdale

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Dalelands

Population: 602,640

(subdivided)

- - -

Damara

1,321,920

(subdivided)

- - -

Dambrath

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Demonfey

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Dragon Coast

Population: 820,800

(subdivided)

- - -

Emerald Enclave

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Evereska

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Evermeet

Population: 1,658,880
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Fire Knives

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Great Dale

Population: 211,680

(subdivided)

- - -

Halruaa

Population: 1,676,160
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Harpers

Population: Unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Western Heartlands

Population: 1,641,600

(subdivided)

- - -

High Forest

Population: 29,088

(subdivided)

- - -

Hillsfar

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Hordelands

Population: 133,488

(subdivided)

- - -

Icewind Dale

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Illithid

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Impiltur

Population: 1,205,280
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Ironfang Keep

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Lake of Steam

Population: 1,745,280

(subdivided)

- - -

Lantan

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Larloch and his Necropolis

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Luiren

Population: 838,080
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Luruar (Citadel Adbar, Citadel Fellbar, Deadsnows, Everlund, Jalanthar, Mithril Hall, Silverymoon, and all held lands.)

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Luskan

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Malaugrym

Population: unknown (but in the books somewhere)
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Menzoberranzan

Population: 30,000
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Mistledale

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Moonsea

Population: 1,745,280

(subdivided)

- - -

Moonshae Isles

Population: 680,400

(subdivided)

- - -

Mulhorand

Population: 5,339,520
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Mulmaster

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Narfell

Population: 36,720

(subdivided)

- - -

Nelanther Isles

Population: 2,822

(subdivided)

- - -

Neverwinter

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Night Masks

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Nimbral

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

The North

Population: unknown

(subdivided)

- - -

Phaerimm of Anauroch

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Procampur

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Rashemen

Population: 654,480
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Raven's Bluff

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

The Great Rift

Population: 1,308,920

(subdivided)

- - -

Sembia

Population: 2,462,400
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Sespech

Population: 952,560
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Savage Frontier

Population: 564,480

(subdivided)

- - -

Scarsdale

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Seven Sisters

Population: 7
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Shaar

587,520

(subdivided)

- - -

City of Shade

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Shadow Thieves

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Shadowdale

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Sharn

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Lords of the Shield

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

The Silver Marches

Population: 1,090,800

(subdivided)

- - -

Skullport

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

The Sword Coast North

Population: 660,960

(subdivided)

- - -

Tashalar

Population: 889,920

(subdivided)

- - -

Tethyr

Population: 3,771,360
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Thar

Population: unknown

(subdivided)

- - -

Thay

Population: 4,924,800
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Thesk

Population: 855,360
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Turmish

Population: 1,693,440
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Twisted Rune

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Underdark

Population: Unknown

(subdivided)

- - -

Unther

Population: 4,263,840
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Vaasa

Population: 145,440

(subdivided)

- - -

Var the Golden

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

The Vast

Population: 1,308,960

(subdivided)

- - -

Vilhon Reach

Population: 5,505,840

(subdivided)

- - -

Waterdeep

Population: 1,347,840
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Zhentil Keep

Population: unknown
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

- - -

Zhentarim

Population: 1,347,840
Intelligence:
Leadership:
Political Cohesion:
International Political Influence:
Military Strength:
Magical Strength:
Economic Strength:
CR Factor:

 

[Janos Antero]

*The crowd waits in awe as the judges tally the score*

Yes folks, it's official, we have a new record for the longest post in history!

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Yeah, and it's getting longer. I'm still adding nations.

(One thing about the Realms, is that there are a lot of city-state nations.)

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

(shrugs, wondering if anyone can add to the list, give population stats, or make guesses on the templates.)

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Some comments concerning the First IR from long ago

In the first IR, the gnomes began their industrial revolution on Lantan. From Lantan, it spread into Amn and Tethyr.
Those 3 nations formed the heart of the change that was to come.
The industrial revolution then spread to Calimshan, and eastward through the Vilhon Reach and Chessenta into Unther and Mulhorand.

Lantan, Amn, Tethyr, the Vilhon Reach, Chessenta, Unther, and Mulhorand formed themselves into the Technomancy.

Menzoberranzan and Chad Nessad, along with other drow cities, were whelmed by Phasmus's illithid, who seized control of most of the Underdark.

The Humanoids of the North, under Forrester, swept down and conquered most of Faerun north of the Moonsea.
Many nations or city-states allied with Forrester to avoid annihilation, and were absorbed into Forrester's growing empire.
These included Icewind Dale, Luskan, Neverwinter, Longsaddle, nearly every city and region in the Savage Frontier, the High Forest, Zhentil Keep, Mulmaster, Hillsfar, Damara, Thar, the Vast, Raven's Bluff, Procampur, the Dalelands, Cormanthor, and Cormyr.

Sembia, joined with the Technomancy to save itself from the onslaught of Forrester.
Waterdeep and Luruar held out against the humanoid invasion.
Evereska was besieged by the humanoids.
The humanoids did not attempt to conquer Anauroch.
The entire region conquered by or allied with the humanoids, became known as the Humanoid Alliance.

In the south, Halruaa, Dambrath, and Var the Golden allied. Forces from this alliance occupied Lurien, and all of the Chultish Peninsula. The beholder nations of the Lake of Steam conquered all the small nations around them, then allied with the Halruaa-Dambrath-Var the Golden confederation. Between them, they occupied most of the Shaar.
This region would come to be known as the Magocracy. Later, it would become Zouron's Magocracy.

Thay joined the Technomancy, and Thesk - fearful of the Humanoid Alliance and threatened by Thay - also joined the Technomancy.

Waterdeep, Luruar, Shadowdale, and Aglarond formed their own alliance, known as the Nations of the Chosen, in mutual self protection.

Nimbral was overrun by Angelic Forces and became Hope Island.
The Moonshae Isles were contested.
Evermeet, faced a vast threat from the Humanoid Alliance.

The dragons, faerie, and other powers of Faerun were pulled into the increasingly uproarous situation.

Finally, much of Zakhara, the Land of Fate, allied with the Technomancy, while the Hordelands declared war on both Technomancy and Humanoid Alliance.