A Review Of Advanced Lovers & Lesbians

For a variety of reasons, romance is a challenge in many tabletop RPGs. While discussing how a character simultaneously eviscerates and decapitates a Big Bad Evil guy comes naturally to many, fewer people feel comfortable playing out love and romance scenes with their friends. That’s one of the things that made Thirsty Sword Lesbians such a refreshing chance of pace. It put romance and action on equal footing thanks to breezy writing, fabulous art and an embrace of openly discussing romance and consent at the table. The bold title puts it all on the line: if queer romance and RPG safety tools aren’t interesting game subjects, feel free to move along quickly Now the expansion book unlocked in the Kickstarter for the original game is starting to hit game shelves. Evil Hat Productions sent me a review copy of Advanced Lovers & Lesbians for this article. Does the game continue to expand horizons? Let’s play to find out.

Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a Powered By The Apocalypse game designed by April Kit Walsh. The game focuses on a mix of swashbuckling action and flirty battles of wits. The playbooks feature several different types of characters suited for the genre and the rules bring together elements from games like Masks, Monsterhearts and so on. Players can choose to engage each other or NPCs in romance with every choice requiring the consent of all involved parties. These relationships are primed for drama, however. Every playbook comes with a moment after two parties decide to get together that brings into focus how they will mess up said relationship. The settings included in the book riff on obvious inspirations such as She-Ra and the Princesses of Power or Steven Universe but also spicy variations of things like Star Wars.

Advanced Lovers & Lesbians kicks off with more playbooks as PbtA expansions often do. There are 10 more playbooks and, by the general nature of expansion playbooks they are a little more complex and niche driven. The hologoddess, for example, is almost five playbooks in one, requiring a player to choose a form that each have their own benefits and drawbacks. Some of the playbooks were built to support specific settings, but any could be included in a game with a little work from the players. PbtA games imply that there will be some setting building during Session Zero. Iif your table wants to have the Sun Hand with their baking magic in the game, it seems pretty easy to discuss whether or not it fits. Many of these playbooks also revolve around some sort of ticking clock that causes problems whenever the timer fills up. There’s compelling stuff here, but GMs should be mindful of how the playbooks affect their world. New players also tend to gravitate towards the most complex characters and these playbooks may be better suited for players who have played this style of game before.

There are also twenty-one new settings complete with custom moves and backgrounds for each. Many of them continue that feeling of riffing on pre-existing media such as Rocky Horror Picture Show or Game of Thrones. There’s nothing wrong with these of course but the book really pushes the envelope with a few settings that still have flirty duels that aren't necessarily sword fights. Take “Queen Pins Queen” which focuses on a chess tournament or “Hyenas” which moves the action to a nature documentary. The book really leans into queer content with “Gaylords”, a campy satirical fantasy setting that seems like it would be tailor made for a drag show. The setting show a wider range of complexity from a few NPCs to full-on changes to playbooks. Even if none of them hit the table, there’s a lot of inspiration here.

The book closes with some GM tools that I really liked. There are four scenarios that are built to drop into almost any world or even a new world created at the table. PbtA games tend to shy away from pre-built scenarios, so it’s exciting to see some designers explore the space. Each is a collection of set-up questions, locations for scenes and NPCs to become PC lovers and rivals. My favorite out of the four is “Through The Looking Glass” which takes kids who got pulled into a fantasy world back into this strange place as adults to watch how their actions shaped the fantasy land. The book wraps up with charts to inspire adventures including ones specific to each playbook from both the core book and the expansion. Each of these specific tables includes friends, threats and hooks to inspire the next adventure.

Advanced Lovers & Lesbians is a fantastic addition to Thirsty Sword Lesbians and is an absolute must-buy for GMs of the game. Whether you’ve already run it or are looking for that perfect world, there’s a lot of inspiration whether it is worlds, characters or art.

 

[Blue]

I have a sneaking suspicion games like this are designed to be read more than they are to be played. Between both my straight and gay players across multiple groups there’s no interest in a romance based game. It strikes all of us as being just...potentially super awkward, and not as fun as fantasy combat.

Depends on the group. One extended group of gamers (say 12-14 of us) would have soap opera campaigns no matter what system we were playing in back then. Romance, dating, love triangles, marriage, lover's spats, you name it. PCs & NPCs and PCs & PCs. We could be playing D&D where we had a paladin have to prove to her god that the cleric of the goddess of good luck was worthy, to superheroes where everyone had a stable of characters and half the threats were in PC on PC action, half caused by jealousy, breakup, or other romantic entanglement. Same group also was very flexible about playing genders and orientations that did not match their own, and the players were a mix of genders and orientations.

In one of the groups I play with now it's all couples, and it feels odd to flirt with someone with their spouse there - it just never comes up.

Varies by the table, comfort level, and what type of game they were interested in playing.

 

[pemerton]

Indie game designers have been trying to make social interaction as tactically complex and interesting (in game terms) as combat for a while. The only way it'll ever be pulled off is if enough games like this try it and people see what works.

If this is a typical PbtA game, then it won't be very tactical. But it will probably be interesting.

 

[Blue Orange]

Depends on the group. One extended group of gamers (say 12-14 of us) would have soap opera campaigns no matter what system we were playing in back then. Romance, dating, love triangles, marriage, lover's spats, you name it. PCs & NPCs and PCs & PCs. We could be playing D&D where we had a paladin have to prove to her god that the cleric of the goddess of good luck was worthy, to superheroes where everyone had a stable of characters and half the threats were in PC on PC action, half caused by jealousy, breakup, or other romantic entanglement. Same group also was very flexible about playing genders and orientations that did not match their own, and the players were a mix of genders and orientations.

In one of the groups I play with now it's all couples, and it feels odd to flirt with someone with their spouse there - it just never comes up.

Varies by the table, comfort level, and what type of game they were interested in playing.

Stealing an old saw about postmodernists, there are as many D&Ds as there are D&D gaming groups. Extends even more so when you have different tabletop RPGs in the mix.

I'm trying to find the old issue of Dragon where they talked about wargame-influenced play in the Upper Midwest where the game started versus extended theatrical roleplaying on the West Coast. It'd be several decades old, so hardly relevant now, but it does suggest people have always taken their own approaches to the game. The advantage of having a single game is so anyone can pull up to your table and roll up a character. The disadvantage of having a single game is the system may not do what you want...so people make their own.

I am curious to see if there are any attempts at applying these romance rules outside of the original customer base--i.e., could you play a non-queer romance game using the rules. Are there any complications when, say, half your characters are now off-limits? (Though it says romance has to be mutually consensual, so perhaps not--it would probably become less frequent.)

(And I have to chuckle at 'Ardor Class'--well done.)

 

[Blue]

I am curious to see if there are any attempts at applying these romance rules outside of the original customer base--i.e., could you play a non-queer romance game using the rules. Are there any complications when, say, half your characters are now off-limits? (Though it says romance has to be mutually consensual, so perhaps not--it would probably become less frequent.)

This is a good question.

My secondhand understanding is that the basis of the Heartstrings moves, whihc is the mechanical aspects of romance, have been taken from a long established Monsterhearts PbtA game. The first edition of that was back in 2012, and a second edition in 2017. So this already is an expansion of existing romance rules.

PbtA games are known for being heavily targeted for particular play experience, verses so-called "big tent" games. So both Monsterhearts and Thirsty Sword Lesbians having a well defined and somewhat narrow target audience is part and parcel of the PbtA experience, above and beyond how that does help make sure everyone is on the same page for being receptive to potential romantic play.

Another facet of this we have RPGs like Blue Rose which explores courtly love and all the politics and intrigue that come with it. That was originally a slimmed down d20, then Green Ronin's True20, and now Green Ronin AGE. That originally came out in 2005, so has 17 years and multiple editions showing there is a large enough market for it to make it worth updating and republishing.

 

[Aldarc]

Another facet of this we have RPGs like Blue Rose which explores courtly love and all the politics and intrigue that come with it. That was originally a slimmed down d20, then Green Ronin's True20, and now Green Ronin AGE. That originally came out in 2005, so has 17 years and multiple editions showing there is a large enough market for it to make it worth updating and republishing.

...which was co-written by THE Jeremy Crawford. He also wrote the Foreward in the updated Blue Rose AGE.

 

[robowieland]

So I take it os a Heartstrings based relationship system like monsterhearts?

Heartstrings are openly borrowed from Monsterhearts. There's also a bit of Masks and other PbtA games in here.

My interview with April Kit Walsh talks about her design influences openly.

 

[robowieland]

Another facet of this we have RPGs like Blue Rose which explores courtly love and all the politics and intrigue that come with it. That was originally a slimmed down d20, then Green Ronin's True20, and now Green Ronin AGE. That originally came out in 2005, so has 17 years and multiple editions showing there is a large enough market for it to make it worth updating and republishing.

Between the original Thirsty Sword Lesbians Kickstarter and the one for Advanced Lovers & Lesbians, Evil Hat raised about 395k for these books. The AL&L Kickstarter number is even more impressive because everyone who backed the original already had the PDF. That's nearly 100k of folks who came back for print or who wanted in because they missed the first KS.

That tells me that there's a market out there for games like this and not everyone is buying them just to read.

 

[Ixal]

So how does romance work? Is it just DM advice how to role play? A condition track? Quest chain? Romance combat?

 

[TerraDave]

...which was co-written by THE Jeremy Crawford. He also wrote the Foreward in the updated Blue Rose AGE.

So speaking of dolphin seduction

 

[Blue]

So how does romance work? Is it just DM advice how to role play? A condition track? Quest chain? Romance combat?

It was explained higher in the thread. In short, in PbtA mechanics follow the fiction. So there are moves for flirting and such, and they can put Heartstrings on others. They do a better job explaining above.