D&D 5E (2014) A simple houserule for martial/caster balance.

[Mordhau]

In the game Pillars of Eternity, martial classes are dipping in a the power of their Soul, like any other class, they just awaken it differently than overt spellcasting. They gain inhuman resilience or accuracy by the same source of power that allows a Wizard to rain fire upon their enemy or a Cypher to re-awakens the memories of a wound on a target.

Earthdawn works in a similar way to.

Being a warrior in Earthdawn means being a particular kind of magical adept.

 

[Fifth Element]

Yes. The post I was responding to did. Explicitly. Hence my reply.

Nope. They said "The thing is that you don't have to assume that they need magic to do whatever extraordinary, supernatural things they do." There is nothing explicitly in the post to say they're talking about literally anything.

You can choose to read that to mean they're talking about literally anything, but again that would be incredibly uncharitable. It would like saying that "because it's magic" is a reason you use to explain why wizards can do things that you must believe that 1st-level wizards should be able to create entire universes with their spells. Because it's magic, and you didn't expressly indicate any limitations.

But that would be a ridiculous and unfair interpretation of "because it's magic", even if it could literally be interpreted that way. That's the point - you shouldn't interpret things literally, you should consider the context of the discussion. Using literal interpretations only harm discussion.

 

[Fifth Element]

It's not about drawing a line. It's about knowing how the game world actually works.

If there are rules for how far a fighter can jump, and it's further than a real human can jump, then that's how the game world actually works.

 

[Fifth Element]

I'm not saying that Fighter abilities need some kind of special explanation. I'm saying that they need a basic level of explanation equal to what other classes that already have.

The limits of human physical ability have a wider range in this fantasy world, and someone who trains physically (like an athlete) can do things in this world that people in our world cannot, because of this wider range of physical ability. People who train to do other tings obviously cannot have trained to do this also because there's only so much training a person can do. Trivial.

 

[Mordhau]

Nope. They said "The thing is that you don't have to assume that they need magic to do whatever extraordinary, supernatural things they do." There is nothing explicitly in the post to say they're talking about literally anything.

You can choose to read that to mean they're talking about literally anything, but again that would be incredibly uncharitable. It would like saying that "because it's magic" is a reason you use to explain why wizards can do things that you must believe that 1st-level wizards should be able to create entire universes with their spells. Because it's magic, and you didn't expressly indicate any limitations.

But that would be a ridiculous and unfair interpretation of "because it's magic", even if it could literally be interpreted that way. That's the point - you shouldn't interpret things literally, you should consider the context of the discussion. Using literal interpretations only harm discussion.

The poster in question went on to concede that he held the view I was objecting to.

Under such circumstances I think I can be unswayed by some random moralising poster telling me I'm being uncharitable.

 

[Mordhau]

The limits of human physical ability have a wider range in this fantasy world, and someone who trains physically (like an athlete) can do things in this world that people in our world cannot, because of this wider range of physical ability. People who train to do other tings obviously cannot have trained to do this also because there's only so much training a person can do. Trivial.

No it's not hard to come up with some kind of explanations. I've said that before.

However, the idea that you can do the same thigs a normal athlete can do but better is not sufficient at high level. I've said that several times now, but it keeps getting ignored (I don't know why - it seems to me that it might actually lead somewhere practical rather than ideological).

Above is the absolute bare minimum for some kind of explanation. We can do better (and what would be lost by doing better)?

This is what I don't get.

People keep telling me that some kind of explanation is unnecessary (I remain unconvinced).

But in any case, the question to me seems not whether one is objectively necessary (which becomes obviously unanswerable) but why exactly wouldn't you put some thought better integrating Fighter abilities into the setting at high levels?

What exactly would be lost by that?

Why wouldn't you try to maximise your audience?

 

[Gammadoodler]

The idea that you can do the same thigs a normal athlete can do but better is not sufficient at high level. I've said that several times now, but it keeps getting ignored (I don't know why - it seems to me that it might actually lead somewhere practical rather than ideological).

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've ignored it because all you have provided is a bald assertion with zero justification.

All that's necessary to address it in total is to acknowledge that "it's just your opinion man".

It shares the same weight as "athletic training in a fantasy world can allow athletes on that world to do things that are supernatural on ours".

The difference is that one assertion narrows the range of character concepts, and the other expands it.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Were your mobility and ranged capabilities notably suffering, in your view? Are you able to work toward fixing any of these issues in the game that you're in? Questing for items you want, having them made, or simply asking thd DM if anything can be done?

It was a pre-written adventure without a whole lot of that sort of flexibility. The party wasn't particularly optimised though.
She was a Glory Paladin however, so had better mobility than most others, even if it was just moving further and jumping higher.
There were several occasions when we fought flying creatures, but Dex 14 and the magic weapon spell meant she was able to use a Longbow pretty well.
There was also an incident where the creature we were fighting was low enough that she was able to jump onto a house roof and then leap off that to tackle it. Would have been epic if she had actually succeeded in her shove attempt.

 

[Gammadoodler]

The poster in question went on to concede that he held the view I was objecting to.

Under such circumstances I think I can be unswayed by some random moralising poster telling me I'm being uncharitable.

I'm not sure that arguing that you've failed in your logical exercise is the same as a concession, but take that W if it makes you feel better.

 

[Mordhau]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've ignored it because all you have provided is a bald assertion with zero justification.

You can always tell when it's pointless to continue a discussion further when a space for a question to be clearly asked that might lead somewhere opens up...

...but then is shunted asided by the need to engage in further sneeering condescension.

Yeah. This is a dead loss.