D&D 5E A simple questions for Power Gamers, Optimizers, and Min-Maxers.

[dave2008]

I wouldn't. In my circles there are lots of lazy people who never want to put in the work to make a "better" character. They will bitch and moan for op races though. I used to be a horrible min/maxer I've learned that rolling a toon I love role playing trumps all. However I still like to min/max but have it make sense with the back story and character class/race. However if all my work to make it make sense had no benefit I'd just roll basic toons. Dwarf pally is a noble Thane. No longer would need to make this elaborate story why my dwarf was a pirate just to get the other wise strange prof for a dwarf.

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Thank you for your reply!

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I wouldn't. In my circles there are lots of lazy people who never want to put in the work to make a "better" character. They will bitch and moan for op races though. I used to be a horrible min/maxer I've learned that rolling a toon I love role playing trumps all. However I still like to min/max but have it make sense with the back story and character class/race. However if all my work to make it make sense had no benefit I'd just roll basic toons. Dwarf pally is a noble Thane. No longer would need to make this elaborate story why my dwarf was a pirate just to get the other wise strange prof for a dwarf.

You're aware that 5E allows you to customize backgrounds to your heart's content? You can get Athletics and Perceptions proficiencies from any background including Noble, if you like. ("I'm a noble whose family has a tradition of sports and hunting." Done.) See the Customizing Backgrounds section of the PHB.

 

[Boscogn]

You're aware that 5E allows you to customize backgrounds to your heart's content? You can get Athletics and Perceptions proficiencies from any background including Noble, if you like. ("I'm a noble whose family has a tradition of sports and hunting." Done.) See the Customizing Backgrounds section of the PHB.

Haha I wasn't! That's great to know. I've only played a couple 5e games. I mostly play pathfinder and Rifts. I really like the rules of 5e though and am trying to find a way to weave them into the Rifts universe.

Edit: I still wouldn't though. Another example is Variant Human Polearm Master Paladin. Not really fun without the extra feat to grab sentinel. That vs just a Dwarf Greatsword pally there is significant adavange. I still like to have the ability to roll that character because I'm well aware of its different builds. If OP made a game where I could say pick 2 stats and feat to any race that'd be fun. It tears at me the race I hate playing the most is damn near the best across the board.

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[The Crimson Binome]

You're aware that 5E allows you to customize backgrounds to your heart's content? You can get Athletics and Perceptions proficiencies from any background including Noble, if you like. ("I'm a noble whose family has a tradition of sports and hunting." Done.) See the Customizing Backgrounds section of the PHB.

Kind of. You have to go through the DM, and a lot of DMs would shut down an obvious attempt to shift proficiencies where they don't make sense.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Kind of. You have to go through the DM, and a lot of DMs would shut down an obvious attempt to shift proficiencies where they don't make sense.

No you don't. Or at least, no more than you have to go through the DM to do anything. You only need to go through the DM to create new features.

Customizing a Background
You might want to tweak some of the features of a background so it better fits your character or the campaign setting. To customize a background, you can replace one feature with any other one, choose any two skills, and choose a total of two tool proficiencies or languages from the sample backgrounds. You can either use the equipment package from your background or spend coin on gear as described in the equipment section. (If you spend coin, you can’t also take the equipment package suggested for your class.) Finally, choose two personality traits, one ideal, one bond, and one flaw. If you can’t find a feature that matches your desired background, work with your GM to create one.

Aside from feature creation, background customization is as much a player-directed activity as stat-rolling or class selection, according to the PHB.

 

[steenan]

I like optimizing and, in general, playing with mechanics.

If various options available in a system gave no mechanical benefits, I would ask why are they even here. Just give the setting information and let the players describe their characters based on that, without listing mechanical items with no mechanical meaning.

If, on the other hand, they gave mechanical benefits that would be well balanced, I would rejoice. Having multiple options that are different, but equally good, is the perfect mechanical environment for me. If the options are unbalanced, there is no much real choice left - after removing ones that break the game and ones that are just worse than other choices, only a few possibilities are available. A balanced game has no "must have" and "never take it" choices.

It's worth remembering that having balanced (but mechanically different) options is not anathema to optimization. One always optimizes for something specific (goal), with specific limitations (bounds). So if the options are balanced, they are not globally better or worse, but they are better or worse for specific uses. That's exactly what I like to play with.

 

[Lanefan]

I want to play a memorable hero, not the average soldier...

Where I'd rather play an average soldier through the journey that makes her a memorable hero.

Lan-"combat should never be 'sport'"-efan

 

[Lanefan]

Not optimizing is not the same as not knowing how to function. It's when you're being asked "which one do I roll to attack again?" after playing for 3 months of weekly sessions. When you're waiting 5-10 minutes for people to figure out their attack bonus and then they still need to roll damage. There's a certain degree of "being able to math" required for D&D...

Some versions of D&D, anyway.

I played 3e for about 7 years and - when playing warrior types above about 5th level - had to look up my attack and damage bonuses *every bloody time*. Why? Two reasons. One, there were too many different ones to simply memorize; and two, they kept changing all the time (even within the same combat) so I couldn't just work it out once and write it down.

As for the original question re optimizing being essential for fun, I can only give a reverse perspective: as a mostly non-optimizer my fun is reduced when someone else intentionally optimizes in order to be better/more powerful/more one-man-band-ish than me and-or the others in the party.

Lan-"a character whose stats are all '15' may be -and often is - much less fun to play that a character with '18-16-14-10-8-6'"-efan

 

[dave2008]

I like optimizing and, in general, playing with mechanics.

If various options available in a system gave no mechanical benefits, I would ask why are they even here. Just give the setting information and let the players describe their characters based on that, without listing mechanical items with no mechanical meaning.

If, on the other hand, they gave mechanical benefits that would be well balanced, I would rejoice. Having multiple options that are different, but equally good, is the perfect mechanical environment for me. If the options are unbalanced, there is no much real choice left - after removing ones that break the game and ones that are just worse than other choices, only a few possibilities are available. A balanced game has no "must have" and "never take it" choices.

It's worth remembering that having balanced (but mechanically different) options is not anathema to optimization. One always optimizes for something specific (goal), with specific limitations (bounds). So if the options are balanced, they are not globally better or worse, but they are better or worse for specific uses. That's exactly what I like to play with.

Thank you for your response, that is helpful.

 

[dave2008]

Some versions of D&D, anyway.

I played 3e for about 7 years and - when playing warrior types above about 5th level - had to look up my attack and damage bonuses *every bloody time*. Why? Two reasons. One, there were too many different ones to simply memorize; and two, they kept changing all the time (even within the same combat) so I couldn't just work it out once and write it down.

As for the original question re optimizing being essential for fun, I can only give a reverse perspective: as a mostly non-optimizer my fun is reduced when someone else intentionally optimizes in order to be better/more powerful/more one-man-band-ish than me and-or the others in the party.

Lan-"a character whose stats are all '15' may be -and often is - much less fun to play that a character with '18-16-14-10-8-6'"-efan

Thank you for your response. It is helpful to get the non-optimizer prospective.