D&D 5E A simple questions for Power Gamers, Optimizers, and Min-Maxers.

[The Crimson Binome]

By whom? I don't recall seeing that in the PHB or DMG.

It is simply the nature of systems of equations, that they demand solving. Perhaps they do not call as strongly to you as they do to others.

If one is optimizing they are inherently meta-gaming. No I personally don't have an issue with that, but to some that is anathema to role-playing.

Not in the slightest. Given that the rules of the game reflect the reality of the game world, a player choosing to optimize based on the mechanics is simply a reflection of a character choosing to optimize their own chance of success, which is entirely expected of anyone in a highly dangerous line of work.

In fact, refusing to optimize is often a strong indication of meta-gaming, since it so frequently relies upon the player making assumptions about how the world works based on the real world (or other fictional worlds) rather than the actual reality of the game world.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[dave2008]

It is simply the nature of systems of equations, that they demand solving. Perhaps they do not call as strongly to you as they do to others.

I disagree - that is the nature of humans (possibly life), not systems of equations. The vast majority of creation is a lifeless void with no meaning or purpose at all - that is the nature of all things, including systems of equations. We humans just like to think otherwise.

Not in the slightest. Given that the rules of the game reflect the reality of the game world, a player choosing to optimize based on the mechanics is simply a reflection of a character choosing to optimize their own chance of success, which is entirely expected of anyone in a highly dangerous line of work.

The rules of the game do not reflect the reality of the game world. They give a framework to play a game, that is all. If D&D reflected reality that would be one f'ed-up reality that i could never immerse myself in. I find this line of thinking terrible flawed, but to each his own I guess. We will never see eye to eye on this subject if that is your viewpoint.

In fact, refusing to optimize is often a strong indication of meta-gaming, since it so frequently relies upon the player making assumptions about how the world works based on the real world (or other fictional worlds) rather than the actual reality of the game world.

See my response above. I will simply agree to disagree.

 

[dave2008]

Yes it is. You want to dictate how others play and enjoy the game, based on your own selfish desires. i.e. You think they should play the way you do, so that you enjoy the game more.

Personally, I focus on both the numbers and the personality and backstory of my character. Coming up with an interesting build and then coming up with a backstory to explain how and why the character would make those choices and learn those abilities, then deciding what kind of personality that would result in.

I kinda doubt it. You are far too controlling towards other players.

I think you are reading into his comments things that are not there a think. He doesn't want to control other players, he simple said he would prefer to play with players like himself/herself. Pretty much the same thing you said.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

You see this over and over again in the real world; why do you think a pseudo-High fantasy world that (assumedly) doesn't have advanced math, statistics, Bayesian reasoning, and excel spreadsheets would be any different?

It's not that people in a fantasy world never make irrational decisions. It's just that our incredibly-competent monster-slaying power-fantasy idealized hero characters tend to be above such things.

 

[dave2008]

It's not that people in a fantasy world never make irrational decisions. It's just that our incredibly-competent monster-slaying power-fantasy idealized hero characters tend to be above such things.

With an Int of 10?

 

[Boscogn]

It's not that people in a fantasy world never make irrational decisions. It's just that our incredibly-competent monster-slaying power-fantasy idealized hero characters tend to be above such things.

Flawed heroes are the best heroes.

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[Caliban]

Yes, is there a point here?

It being a game implies some level of competition. Your fighter vs. the monsters, your rogue vs. the traps, your bard vs. their social scores, in some cases the players vs. the DM for those who enjoy antagonistic playstyles. So in order to succeed at the game (not necessarily "win" but succeed at whatever your objective is), most people look for at least a basic level of optimization from among the options available to them.

Simply choosing options to make your character better is not what I meant by optimizing. I should have been more clear, I apologize. I was thinking a long the lines of reading through all the possible class features, feats, spells, etc. and choosing the better / best options for what will come in the future. It is a thin line, and I don't really care about it so I may be misrepresenting both sides, but it seems to me the heavy role-players would be against looking forward beyond what one's current abilities are.

Some of the best roleplayers I've known have been blatant power-gamers. Not building optimized characters, but going for the most game breaking combo's they can find. And then they make you like it because their characters are so fun to be around.

I'm not at that level - I tend to build optimized characters, but not overtly game breaking ones. (My personal scale is gimps - characters that have been deliberately made sub-par, average characters - characters built to be basically competent, optimized characters - designed to be above average and/or take advantage of an interesting combo or quirk of the games system, and power-gamed - characters that are built to break the game mechanics.)

Agreed, they are separate things IMO. It is the same reason I don't understand why people separate combat from role-playing. Hell, my groups do 75%+ of their role-playing in combat!

Some people can only focus well on one thing at a time. My RP'ing drops off a lot during combat, unless I'm actively trying to socialize my way out of the fight.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The rules of the game do not reflect the reality of the game world. They give a framework to play a game, that is all. If D&D reflected reality that would be one f'ed-up reality that i could never immerse myself in. I find this line of thinking terrible flawed, but to each his own I guess. We will never see eye to eye on this subject if that is your viewpoint.

The rules of any RPG reflect the reality of its game-world, within certain limits and assumptions. Even 4E makes some sense, within its own limited context (though it falls apart like a house of cards if you challenge any of its assumptions).

If the rules of the game didn't reflect the reality of the game world, then we'd have no idea of how the game world actually worked. If the in-game reality was different from what the rules of the game tell us, then the outcome of a situation would depend on whether or not we apply the rules, so the rules themselves would be useless toward telling us what actually happens in any situation. There would be no point in having rules at all!

 

[lowkey13]

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