D&D (2024) A simpler game is a better game...for us

[UngeheuerLich]

That's what the starter set is for.

No. It should be even more friendly. 1D&D generally makes the game more fun. I also think, that some people are way overreacting about good changes, just because they look at that single change and not the whole thing.
Of course, no one likes their most loved class nerfed. But sometimes a nerf is warranted to allow more room for other classes. Druids for example are and always have been offenders. Hey rogue you want to scout? Don't bother. I am now a spider, noone will notice me. Hey fighter stand aside. I will turn in a brown bear and maul the enemy to death, without draining any healing resource...
As much as I loved bard's early magical secrets... it was often used to take level 3 half caster spells to make them look weak next to them. So let's don't act as WotC took our lollys when a nerf hits us and look at what we get to compensate.

 

[James Gasik]

So here's the thing. There are players and DM's who want the equivalent of the Red Box. Maybe the Expert rules.

There are players and DM's who want more depth and crunch to the game, to degrees ranging from AD&D all the way to the intense pile of Legos that is 3e, to even the experimental design of 4e.

The current iteration of D&D is trying to offer the same game to all of these people at once, and doesn't ever bother to segregate things from one end of the spectrum from another.

You can have a Champion Fighter in a party with an Echo Knight, a Knowledge Cleric tooling around with a Twilight Cleric. Some of these options are clearly just better than others, yet not once is there a warning label saying "psst, hey, if your game is more like classic dungeon crawling, choose this. If it's a highly political game in a post-war magictech civilization, choose that."

A less experienced DM will wonder what's going on when some of the characters at his table are just doing more than others. They might think that they are doing something wrong!

The game should be designed with a simple base, and then you can tack on modules to adjust to the preferred level of play. But instead, even bog standard PHB spellcasters can break action economy, real economy, and all pillars of play in half unless the DM steps in; and the DMG doesn't tell you what to do if your players have figured out how to use Fabricate to jump start an industrial revolution, with factories of Simulacrum cloned craftsman toiling on assembly lines!

 

[TerraDave]

I would iike simpler, but I see no evidence, at all, of that from 1 D&D. It simplifies a little there, but complicates over here.

Making feats core and having more of them, for example, is certainly not a simplification or newb friendly. It could be good or bad for most players (really depends on the feats). Its not simpler. 1st level paladins and rangers having cantrips--that they prepare--would be another example. There are more.

D&D overall complexity level has been about the same since late 2e. Maybe a little too high with 3e, but otherwise the range is about the same. There are periodic efforts to streamline the game, but clearly a lot of players want all that bling, and that bling brings complexity.

 

[Horwath]

The game needs to be more complicated if anything.

More feats, options, features, subclasses, starting from level 1.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The game needs to be more complicated if anything.

More feats, options, features, subclasses, starting from level 1.

Level Up brings exactly that.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Level Up brings exactly that.

Which is the point. LevelUP does this. But OneD&D should not. At least not in the PHB. With a solid base, we can later have advanced books.

 

[Horwath]

Which is the point. LevelUP does this. But OneD&D should not. At least not in the PHB. With a solid base, we can later have advanced books.

maybe they should print 2 PHBs at once,

PHB 1 with "basic" classes, PHB 2 with "advanced"

or have the Warrior, Mage, Expert classes in PHB with power pool of normal class for those that want "simple" classes.

Level Up should be standard for 1D&D complexity of classes, if not more.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

maybe they should print 2 PHBs at once,

PHB 1 with "basic" classes, PHB 2 with "advanced"

or have the Warrior, Mage, Expert classes in PHB with power pool of normal class for those that want "simple" classes.

Maybe. Or just stick to normal classes like those in the current PHB and then add some rules variants in the DMG, like starting from level 3. And adding 2 more epic levels on top.

 

[Bagpuss]

What are others seeing that I'm not?

A simpler game removes "system mastery" which was a big part of 3rd Ed, finding clever little combos, knowing what disadvantages you could avoid or offset by exploiting something else. Making every choice good, everything easy removes a lot of the point from making a choice.

 

[mamba]

That's what the starter set is for.

the set is limited to a handful of levels, there is no need to pile on a lot of complexity afterwards.
Obviously you get additional spells, skills, char creation, etc., but outside of that I see no reason to have more mechanical / rule complexity