D&D 5E A Thought about 5e Multi-classing...

[steeldragons]

I HATED 3e's introduction of "take a level" in whatever you want at next level. I think it totally destroyed the D&D experience.

Yes, yes, yes. It allowed for allll kinds customization. And all sortsa special/prestige/dare I say "Paragon" type paths. You could be a superhero if you wanted by level 4.

It just stuck in my "flavor/fluff" craw. I don't fully understand how it worked...Did you have to train with someone of a completely different occupation than you started with? How long did that take? Or did you just wake up one day and suddenly have all of the bells and whistles of the new class at level 1?

It's not really here nor there for this thread's purposes. I didn't like it.

1e multiclassing was pure and simple. You had training in these 2 (3 if you were a half-elf) things. These were the things you were trained enough in to start your adventuring career and you went from there.

I went through many incarnations of multiclassing. The 1/2-1/2 split of XP. Then the removal of racial restrictions. Then "I'll reward XP for the skills you use in each class (i.e. if you are a Ftre/MU and never cast a spell or do anything MU related, you're not getting XP for MU). And a few others.

The point I am trying to get around to for 5e.

WHAT IF...

What if any PC of ANY race is allowed to multiclass with 2 classes.

And then, when you hit a certain level (I'm thinking 10 as a nice round number, but that's negotiable) in any either class, you can choose to pick up a different class (not one of your starting 2).

Does that sound like a decent compromise of the 3(and I presume 4)e system meshed with the 1/2e sensibility?

I dunno. Was just a thought.
--SD

 

[Yora]

You mean something like Gestalt characters?

 

[Crazy Jerome]

It just stuck in my "flavor/fluff" craw. I don't fully understand how it worked...Did you have to train with someone of a completely different occupation than you started with? How long did that take? Or did you just wake up one day and suddenly have all of the bells and whistles of the new class at level 1?

...

The point I am trying to get around to for 5e.

WHAT IF...

What if any PC of ANY race is allowed to multiclass with 2 classes.

And then, when you hit a certain level (I'm thinking 10 as a nice round number, but that's negotiable) in any either class, you can choose to pick up a different class (not one of your starting 2).

Does that sound like a decent compromise of the 3(and I presume 4)e system meshed with the 1/2e sensibility?

I'd prefer something like you listed, to multiclassing in either 3E, 4E, or even a combination of the two. Though I'd like the means to be a little more organic.

I know it was kind of an introductory aside, but I think still relevant that it was not unheard of for people with your sensibilities on 3E multiclassing to require the player to telegraph their picks. Your 5th level fighter can take a level in rogue at 6th level, because at 4th level, you told everyone that you were planning on doing so sometime in the next few levels, and thus had plenty of time in game to roleplay your acquisition of the necessary intro abilities.

The most well-rounded characters I ever got out of a d20 game was running a modified gestalt Arcana Evolved game. Every character had a prime class that they could not multiclass out of. In parallel, every character had a "breadth" slot where they could not take the same class twice in row. The prime class was the main flavor of what you "are". The breadth class was not meant to have such in-game correspondence, but mechanical reflection of tricks you picked up from adventuring, fellow party members, training, etc. Because the secondary abilities rapidly fell behind in the power of the prime class, it did not impinge too much on niches. On the downside, it did take a special character sheet to manage properly, almost an extra page, and was thus a huge pain to administer, for both me and the players. However, I think a system designed with "multiclassing for breadth only, not at the expense of prime character abilities" might do a better job than our cobbled together version.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I agree with what you're saying. 3e's multiclassing allowed too much freedom imo and took D&D too close to being a classless system, a la GURPS or Hero. It seems like D&DNext will be using the 3e system.

That said, it will be easy to houserule that to be more restrictive, as you suggested. I quite like the idea of no more than 2 base classes + 1 prestige class, though I'm not sure if D&DNext will have prestige classes.

 

[I'm A Banana]

If...the problem is mainly flavor, shouldn't DMs just be explicitly given the power to forbid people to take a level in a given class if it is unjustified?

I dunno why you need a whole new multiclassing system to solve that problem?

 

[RangerWickett]

I'd prefer if "established tough adventurer" is somewhere around 5th level, so 1 level in any given class is kinda dinky. And then I'd start most of my games at 5th level.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I agree with what you're saying. 3e's multiclassing allowed too much freedom imo and took D&D too close to being a classless system, a la GURPS or Hero. It seems like D&DNext will be using the 3e system.

That said, it will be easy to houserule that to be more restrictive, as you suggested. I quite like the idea of no more than 2 base classes + 1 prestige class, though I'm not sure if D&DNext will have prestige classes.

I agree as well, particularly with the D&D too close to becoming a classless system. I'm hoping they come to their senses and come up with a less divisive(better) system for multiclassing for 5E before launch. 3E multiclassing is likely to sink its tentacles deep into the system and end up informing(and possibly corrupting) its design on a fundamental level in a way that modularity won't be able to fix, leaving people who hate 3E multiclassing in the lurch.

 

[Janaxstrus]

I would prefer 3e's system, with less front loaded-ness, or you have to take so many levels when you choose to add a new class (5?)

With prestige type classes, I would have preferred you have to finish it out before choosing another.

Basically, I liked the 3e system, but it had some flaws with dipping.

Fighter 5/Rogue 5/Some Prestige 10, doesn't sound nearly as bad as

Fighter 2/Rogue 3/Prestige 2/Other Prestige 2/StillAnother Prestige 5

 

[Starbuck_II]

1e multiclassing was pure and simple. You had training in these 2 (3 if you were a half-elf) things. These were the things you were trained enough in to start your adventuring career and you went from there.

But many of us started on 2E not 1E so Dual classing (which is the deevolution of 3E's multiclassing) worked exactly the same. No required to be taught listed.

I went through many incarnations of multiclassing. The 1/2-1/2 split of XP. Then the removal of racial restrictions. Then "I'll reward XP for the skills you use in each class (i.e. if you are a Ftre/MU and never cast a spell or do anything MU related, you're not getting XP for MU). And a few others.

--SD

I don't like the idea I'm penalized if I forget to cast a spell in a combat.

I liked 3E's dual class system (since that is what multiclass system is in 3E).

in 3E classes weren't roles or life plans: they were ability packages.
You learn some of this and that: thus multiclassing is possible.

 

[seregil]

While I agree that 3E multiclassing was perhaps too permissive, in 4E multiclassing is a joke.

I don't really like the 'choose at character creation which classes you will use' of 1e/2e.

So, for me, 3E is the closest to what should be done. So what are the problems with 3E multiclassing?

• Frontloading of class abilities
• Fluff problems where someone 'suddenly' becomes a wizard
• overall weakness of a character that multiclasses as each individual classe is lower level

What then?

I don't really have an answer. The front loading is an easy-er fix.

The fluff problems could be fixed by indications that training is required and, perhaps, some quick rules on what is needed.

The last one, well, THAT I don't know. I would like that level sensitive powers, whatever they may be, be based on overall class level where appropriate. Kinda powered by 'life force' if you will, but how to write those rules...?

Food for thought.


EDIT: just thought of something. What if you have a set of abilities that are awared at character creation for a class, then a series of abilities/powers that are level based.

So, if I create a level 1 fighter, I get power A,B,C because he was created a fighter to begin with. Then I also get powers D,E,F which ANYONE with at least one level in Fighter gets.

Then, power A,B,C could either be available later in the class progression for those who don't have them by being a fighter from the start, whereas the 'created-as-a-fighter' gets something else.

Essentially, a character is always better at his 'birth class' than someone who multiclasses but you could then make most powers use the character's overall level for all their powers, thereby compensating for the weakness of multiclass character in 3E.

Again, just brainstorming.