D&D 5E A Thought about 5e Multi-classing...

[trancejeremy]

Bring back AD&D style multi-classing! Only remove the race restrictions. The multi-class characters are more or less like the Gestalt ones, but the dual class are simulating a guy taking up a new career

 

[am181d]

3e Multi-Classing is the best.

1e/2e rules never made any sense: Elves are nearly immortal, but they advance in all classes at once and cap prematurely, but humans live a fraction as long, take one class at a time, and get unlimited advancement? Nonsense.

Don't like the 4e rules either. It's clearly a hack because they couldn't figure out a proper way to balance the math. Like when they nerfed polymorph and wildshape.

My only objection to 3e multi-classing is the caster level problem, but setting caster level equal to class level goes a long way (if not all the way) to solving that problem. I'd probably also take the spells per level chart and turn it into a "spells you get at each level chart" so that if you're a 16th level fighter who takes 17th level in wizard, you can cast Wish 1/day but nothing else. In my opinion, this approach makes a lot more sense *story-wise* than the default. (If I'm a legendary war hero who has toppled empires and killed demi-gods, and I decide I want to learn a spell, I'm gonna learn a frickin' great spell.)

 

[variant]

So you want everyone to multiclass because it is overpowered?

 

[malcolm_n]

My only objection to 3e multi-classing is the caster level problem, but setting caster level equal to class level goes a long way (if not all the way) to solving that problem. I'd probably also take the spells per level chart and turn it into a "spells you get at each level chart" so that if you're a 16th level fighter who takes 17th level in wizard, you can cast Wish 1/day but nothing else. In my opinion, this approach makes a lot more sense *story-wise* than the default. (If I'm a legendary war hero who has toppled empires and killed demi-gods, and I decide I want to learn a spell, I'm gonna learn a frickin' great spell.)

I think I would rather let them get Magic missile as a 17th level caster. It's a level 1 spell (easy to learn for a new spellcaster) but because of their worldly experience, they naturally can cast it with more power than some kid right out of wizard school.

I don't think I'd be keen on letting that guy who wears plate armor and has almost 3 times my own hit points get Wish right out the gate when I've scrambled, scrimped and saved for 17 levels in cloth armor behind guys like him just so I can prepare it after sleeping uninterrupted for 8 hours.

 

[Tallifer]

I really really like the Hybrid Classes of the Fourth Edition. Flexibility and interesting combinations without overpowering additions. For anyone unfamiliar, you pick two classes and choose certain class features from each class (there are limits and rules for this). Unlike Gestalt classes, you do not add everything together: you end up with a character who has some benefits from both classes.

Obviously some Hybrid Classes are weaker for effective adventuring (for example a hand-to-hand Tactical Warlord requiring Strength and Intelligence combined with a ranged Sorcerer requiring Dexterity and Charisma), but on the whole it is a great way to truly combine classes in the way that the old Elfin Fighter/Thief from AD&D was.

 

[MoonSong]

3e Multi-Classing is the best.

1e/2e rules never made any sense: Elves are nearly immortal, but they advance in all classes at once and cap prematurely, but humans live a fraction as long, take one class at a time, and get unlimited advancement? Nonsense.

Don't like the 4e rules either. It's clearly a hack because they couldn't figure out a proper way to balance the math. Like when they nerfed polymorph and wildshape.

My only objection to 3e multi-classing is the caster level problem, but setting caster level equal to class level goes a long way (if not all the way) to solving that problem. I'd probably also take the spells per level chart and turn it into a "spells you get at each level chart" so that if you're a 16th level fighter who takes 17th level in wizard, you can cast Wish 1/day but nothing else. In my opinion, this approach makes a lot more sense *story-wise* than the default. (If I'm a legendary war hero who has toppled empires and killed demi-gods, and I decide I want to learn a spell, I'm gonna learn a frickin' great spell.)

I know it wasn't in the core and it is a hack solution at best, but the Practiced Spellcaster Feat from complete series was a very good feat to take if you were a multiclass caster, basically that feat allows you to rise your caster level up to five levels beyond your actual casting class levels (but never beyond your hit dice). A handy and poweful feat to have if you were a multiclass caster/had racial hit dice. Something like that could be either the baseline or be fully optional.

 

[Sunseeker]

If...the problem is mainly flavor, shouldn't DMs just be explicitly given the power to forbid people to take a level in a given class if it is unjustified?

I dunno why you need a whole new multiclassing system to solve that problem?

Telling a player they can't take a level in Fighter IMO feels like it's stepping into that squishy ground of "that's not your right." Yes, the DM is in charge, and the DM should be able to set guidelines and rules on just about everything. However, telling people what classes they can or cannot be really feels like I'm stepping on people's toes. It starts to run down that road of why not just tell everyone what class they have to be?

I think it would be better to have a hard cap on the number of classes you can take ever and allow for more creative multiclassing than simply "I take a level in fighter and get all his tricks."

But to be fair, few people super-munchkin-multiclassed except to power-build, and those characters became a target of the DM's ire no matter what.

 

[YRUSirius]

In my own version of D&D next I'm trying to write right now (with the help of all the D&D next previews) I go the 3E multi-classing way, but un-frontload the classes. Their main class features are getting spread out over the first 3 levels (1st level: 1 main class feature, 1 minor class feature - 2nd level: 1 main class feature - 3rd level: first main class feature that the player can chose from feat trees/class feature trees).

Additionally I'll limit the number of classes you can multi-class into. Thinking about 2 additional classes at most. So Fighter/Thief/Wizard is fine. Fighter/Thief/Wizard/Sorcerer/Ranger is not.

Caster levels are not a problem because spells don't use caster levels, because they don't scale in my version. Fireball just does 5d6+Int damage and that's it. You want to do more damage with Fireball? Increase your intelligence or prepare Mighty Fireball (different spell). Saving throws don't use caster level because the wizard rolls a spell attack with his intelligence. Wanna make your spells harder to resist? Increase your intelligence. (Flattened level boundaries and all that jazz.)

Pretty sure that D&D next is going with something like that too.

-YRUSirius

 

[FireLance]

You know, I think 4e style multiclassing would be a great way to lead into 3e style multiclassing, and would help solve the 3e frontloading problem. In other words, before you take your first level in another class, you need to spend feats or some other character customization options to acquire a few basic abilities of the second class first. So, before you take a level in fighter, you must gain proficiency with heavy armor and martial weapons. Similarly, before you take a level in wizard, you must be trained in Arcana and acquire the ability to cast some basic spells.

In terms of the narrative, taking a level in a new class also becomes a more gradual process, and is preceded by picking up bits and pieces of foundational abilities first.

 

[Mattachine]

I think the 4e hybrid system was good, but it was clunky--it didn't work well at all with some classes, signature class features were left off of some classes, and a few classes (ones that didn't use the standard powers mechanic) didn't hybridize at all.

I would like to see a mix of 3e/4e multiclassing. You can start with two classes right off the bat, add another class later, yet use a mix of features from the two classes. Finally, if classes aren't terribly front-loaded, it won't be overpowered.