A Thought on Kylo Ren

Herobizkit

Adventurer
Kylo Ren 'hero worships' Darth Vader and wants to be like him.

Presumably, Vader's, uh, career path (the stuff we don't see) that leads to his being the right-hand man to the Emperor himself are very big shoes to fill.

When Kylo Ren fails, he takes that failure very personally. It makes him frustrated and angry that things aren't going as well for him as they did (?) for Darth Vader.

Then he meets Rey. Someone who doesn't even want to deal with the Force, and she turns his mind probe around and thwarts him. She came upon that pretty easily and he knows it. This makes him very angry.

Now here's this same girl later down the road, picks up LUKE'S lightsaber of all things and proceeds to hold her own against a (severely wounded, of course) Kylo Ren, and just when it looks like a victory is hand, the very earth itself opens up, separating the two. This probably makes Ren very angry.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to the Dark Side.

And cookies!

Point is, Kylo does some bad stuff, but it's not what you DO that fuels the Dark Side, but what you FEEL. Killing all those innocents was a dick move, sure, but what he actually gets emotional about is trying to be a Uber-Sith while everyone around him is doing better than him at everything.

That's pretty childish, I guess.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Or the behaviour of a 3 year old with an abusive parent who won't take his crap. Boundaries tested and found.

Not even a little bit. Kylo's behavior displays a level of emotional complexity that 3 year olds are literally incapable of. The very fact that he is torn between light and dark, that he doesn't want to admit that his father means anything to him, the idea of adopting a new identify to escape the real one, etc are all displays of a complex emotional state.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Would you consider this a fair analogy:
Gasoline is fuel to a car. It provides power, energy, and a push. Sith Lords should use their aggressive feelings to fuel their power in the Dark Side.
Gasoline poisons humans. Sith Lords are supposed to have control of their feelings, not drown in them.

Kylo Ren starts off by splashing himself with a face-full of gasoline.

quick note. so far as we know, the Knights of Ren aren't part of the Sith tradition.
 

Kaodi

Hero
Been two weeks and I have already forgotten: In what ways does Kylo Ren attack or harm his own allies in the movie? During the two violent outbursts I remember, he basically hacked up a room with a computer board and he hacked up the interrogation chamber. And in the latter case, there was a Stormtrooper involved who Vader probably would have force choked to death.
 


Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
so far as we know, the Knights of Ren aren't part of the Sith tradition.
Fair enough; we never see Darth Sidious or Darth Vader working to extend the tradition beyond themselves*, so the next Dark Side adept might have to start from scratch and reconstruct as much as he can, knowing he won't find / discover everything that was lost.

* I understand that Sidious wants to pit Vader against Luke and keep the winner as Apprentice (like, a generation ago, he pitted Dooku against Anakin).
Vader seems to think Luke can become Co-Apprentice under Sidious. Did Sidious stop thinking beyond his personal future?
 

Ruzak

First Post
Been two weeks and I have already forgotten: In what ways does Kylo Ren attack or harm his own allies in the movie? During the two violent outbursts I remember, he basically hacked up a room with a computer board and he hacked up the interrogation chamber. And in the latter case, there was a Stormtrooper involved who Vader probably would have force choked to death.
I agree, Kylo handles his anger better than Vader. Sure, he vents in a violent fashion, but he doesn't kill the messenger.
I think Kylo also shows maturity in his dealing with his weakness and doubts about the dark side. He talks about this with his mentor, gets advice, and ultimately overcomes the problem by killing his father. Vader hides and bottles his feelings. They get the better of him, leading to his own failure.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Vader seems to think Luke can become Co-Apprentice under Sidious. Did Sidious stop thinking beyond his personal future?

That's not what I remember. I remember something along the lines of "Join me and together we can overcome the Emperor and rule the galaxy together as father and son." I think Vader had it in mind to be the new Sith master and Luke the new Sith apprentice.
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
I remember something along the lines of "Join me and together we can overcome the Emperor and rule the galaxy together as father and son."
Ep5:
"Luke, you can destroy the Emperor. He has foreseen it ! Join me - together we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy." Later "we can rule the galaxy as father and son."
But while saying this, Vader is under orders to turn Luke to the Dark Side or destroy him. Telling him "btw, we're going to visit the Emperor next" is contra-indicated. I thought Vader's whole discussion - from "I am your father" to Luke jumping into the bottomless pit - was falsehoods, intended to confuse Luke and make him more susceptible to Vader / Palpatine's manipulations.

Ep6:
Now Vader is under orders to bring Luke to the Emperor - probably because his solo effort to turn Luke failed. He is plain about this to Luke. Vader never does anything against the Emperor - he does stretch the letter of his orders a bit, but not the spirit - until the Emperor turns against him: "Fulfill your destiny, and take your father's place at my side." When Luke demonstrates his loyalty to Anakin/Vader instead and endures the Emperor's displeasure as a result, THEN the betrayed and outraged Vader lays ungentle hands on Palpatine.
 

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