A tool to aid in monster creation
- Thread starter Asmor
- Start date
keterys
First Post
Grazzt said:But yeah- ability scores are almost useless this time for monsters. You could almost do away with them (1e style) completely
Well, I've used them a couple times for bull rushes, grabs, and escaping grabs.
Almost, but still useful
I guess I wouldn't care if we dropped the score and just listed the modifier, though.
Asmor
First Post
For those of you who've made your own tools, what did you do about minions? I gave them "average" stats for everything (i.e. whatever formula was most common), and damage is the minimum result for low normal damage, which seems pretty close to how the books are (but, for example, the Lich Vestige does 10 damage while minimum low for its level is 11).
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Good work. Might indeed prove useful and a nice short-cut.
My personal recommendations on the system:
o Generate the baseline and the 3 primary stats in each pair.
o Decide where you want to diverge.
- Giants should be strong and tough, but not very fast, and probably don't need much Int, either. So, add +4 to Str/Con, and substract the same from Int and Dex (if you wanted to put one ability score lower then the suggested average, you only have to reduce if you exceed the theoretical suggested max).
- Adjust defense scores based on your adjustments above.
- If your changes "should" change attacks, don't change the attack bonus. But change the damage expression so that the ability score modifier "fits". If the monster uses a weapon, best give it a weapon that can (after being sized appropriately) reach the damage expression. This way, you can handle the disarm/sunder like powers in 4E better. (Just exchange damage dice if the weapon changes)
- If you want to add any "secondary" attacks that don't use the standard statistics (like giving a melee brute a statistic for firing his bow), use his primary attack bonus, modify for the appropriate defense, and reduce the bonus by the bonus difference between primary and secondary stat.
This way, you get a good consistency and can still "flavor" your monster how you see fit. I think it also should be pretty balanced, all in all. Bumping one defense at the expense of the others is a fair trade-off. In a "balanced" party, the results should come up equally.
My personal recommendations on the system:
o Generate the baseline and the 3 primary stats in each pair.
o Decide where you want to diverge.
- Giants should be strong and tough, but not very fast, and probably don't need much Int, either. So, add +4 to Str/Con, and substract the same from Int and Dex (if you wanted to put one ability score lower then the suggested average, you only have to reduce if you exceed the theoretical suggested max).
- Adjust defense scores based on your adjustments above.
- If your changes "should" change attacks, don't change the attack bonus. But change the damage expression so that the ability score modifier "fits". If the monster uses a weapon, best give it a weapon that can (after being sized appropriately) reach the damage expression. This way, you can handle the disarm/sunder like powers in 4E better. (Just exchange damage dice if the weapon changes)
- If you want to add any "secondary" attacks that don't use the standard statistics (like giving a melee brute a statistic for firing his bow), use his primary attack bonus, modify for the appropriate defense, and reduce the bonus by the bonus difference between primary and secondary stat.
This way, you get a good consistency and can still "flavor" your monster how you see fit. I think it also should be pretty balanced, all in all. Bumping one defense at the expense of the others is a fair trade-off. In a "balanced" party, the results should come up equally.
Asmor
First Post
Mustrum_Ridcully said:
I feel that you're trying to bring too much of a 3e mentality into things here. Remember: monsters don't play by the same rules! That's probably one of the greatest boons of 4th edition. Gone are the days where you had to figure out what rules to use to make your ideas work.
The numbers are, supposedly, balanced as is. Change the ability scores all you want (though I recommend leaving the higher stat from each pair within a few points of the recommended value. Otherwise, the creature's defenses will be thrown seriously out of whack), but don't sweat the effect it would technically have on attack bonuses or on damage.
Speaking of ability scores, I just had a bit of a duh moment as to why they actually are pretty important: skill checks. Any time a monster makes an untrained skill check, it's actually making an ability check, and if you decide that a monster should be good (i.e. trained) in a skill, the modifier is the base that you start off from.
Oh, also made a slight update. I was calculating defenses wrong in a different way, which is fixed now. It would take me too long to explain my error and it's not particularly interesting.
Asmor
First Post
It wasn't a bug, it was a misinterpretation. Of the same line I'd already misinterpretted once.
To wit, that saves should be modified based on the ability's difference from the average.
The first time, I interpretted average to mean 10, leading to excessive saves.
The second time, I interpretted average to mean the calculated value, including the bump given to the primary stat. Thus the bump didn't actually matter.
I fixed it so that it just takes the actual average stat (13+level) as the number from which modifications are based. Thus the primary stat's bump increases the save.
To wit, that saves should be modified based on the ability's difference from the average.
The first time, I interpretted average to mean 10, leading to excessive saves.
The second time, I interpretted average to mean the calculated value, including the bump given to the primary stat. Thus the bump didn't actually matter.
I fixed it so that it just takes the actual average stat (13+level) as the number from which modifications are based. Thus the primary stat's bump increases the save.
Asmor
First Post
Just caught two big mistakes
1: Attack bonuses for Artillery were 2 points too low
2: I completely missed the initiative bonus. I'd been basing initiative strictly on dexterity mod + half level. Surprised no one noticed that.
Big thanks to Mouseferatu (aka Ari Marmell) for noticing the problems!
1: Attack bonuses for Artillery were 2 points too low
2: I completely missed the initiative bonus. I'd been basing initiative strictly on dexterity mod + half level. Surprised no one noticed that.
Big thanks to Mouseferatu (aka Ari Marmell) for noticing the problems!
