A Tournament of Cosmic Propotions! (Immortal's Handbook Rules)

You know... I was somehow under the impression that Alabaster's Evil Eye functioned as the Transcendental ability of the same name. Crazy, I know, right? It only applying a -12.... makes him substantially weaker than I thought he was. Oops.

Edit: Also, I just noticed you allow Improved Metamagic... I'm kind of speechless at that. Combing that with Improved Spell Mastery is... :erm:

I'm tempted to go make a mage build to show off how mind-bogglingly overpowered that is, and I'm not even good with mages.

Edit2: Now I'm confused. You say he can use 52 slots of metamagic to cast 12 quickened spells per round. How is it not 52 quickened spells per round, since IMM x3 would reduce Quicken to +1 level adjustment?

I'm so glad you asked. We actually discussed this in the old DF thread, but it was over a year ago so I'm not surprised you'd forgotten. I had specifically worded IMM to exclude quicken spell,twin spell, chain spell and a couple of other powerful meta-magic feats from the feats it affects. I'm thinking on whether it should affect epic and divine level metamagic abilities at all, or if I should even allow them.Anyways, since improved metamagic doesn't affect quicken spell, it stays as counting the spells as four levels higher, or consuming four levels of automatic metamagic from improved spell mastery. Therefore the number of spells a god or epic caster is limited to their number of Improved Spell Mastery Feats divided by four, because even with IMM quicken spell still takes up 4 levels of automatic metamagic.


Also, immortals or other beings with Time Dialation or other abilities that give them double actions would gain twice as many spells per round. Abilities that allow an extra standard action would allow one extra spell.
As for Boccob specifically, he only has taken ISM 51 times (even with using anyfeat for another ISM feat) he still only has 51 levels of meta-magic. 51/4 = 12.75 which has to be rounded down to 12.
 

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Also, immortals or other beings with Time Dialation or other abilities that give them double actions would gain twice as many spells per round. Abilities that allow an extra standard action would allow one extra spell.
As for Boccob specifically, he only has taken ISM 51 times (even with using anyfeat for another ISM feat) he still only has 51 levels of meta-magic. 51/4 = 12.75 which has to be rounded down to 12.

Oh good. So he can only deal 335,790 damage per round by casting Empowered x43 Twinned x3 Force Missiles 13 times a round, one-shotting any competitor. For a second there I thought he was too good. They're immune to magic? Or have Spell Abatement and Learned Spell Immunity? Doesn't matter since he penetrates Magic immunity 50% of the time, and the highest-hp competitor only has 100k HP. Creatures without the Chaotic subtype (Most Creatures) have it worse. Empowered x37 Twinned x3 Maw of Chaos, because it does 585,585 damage per round, and not even Force Immunity will stop it. Neither spell has a save.

Perhaps he's wanting to kill some Sidereals where 600k damage isn't enough?
You can drop Maw of Chaos in a Time Stop because it has a duration. Persist Time Stop (more than 300 feet from your target, to avoid Spell Stowaway) and alternate rounds of Twinned x57 Spell Enhancer (+58 to CL for his next spell, combined with Alter Reality and Inner Eye giving him a caster level of 312 to penetrate SR, enough to beat the SR of most First Ones) and Twinned x7 Empowered x81 Maw of Chaos (512,008 damage per round). Do this all day (infinite spells per day, so why not?). As soon as your Time Stop ends, your unfortunate target takes 3.7 billion damage, unless they're immune to magic, where it's only 1.8 billion. Take the time to cast (Widened) Forcecage, Dimensional Lock, Solid Fog, and a few other movement-restricting spells (at an insignificant reduction in damage) and they take that every round and can't escape. Make them all Tenacious with Anyfeat and even dropping a Disjunction every round while magic immune only cuts the damage to 400 million.
 

^See, Neo? That's what I was trying to say earlier in the thread, but like I said, I suck with mages. :P

Though, Buugi, that doesn't work with anyone who has Slipstream, right? (I've always thought all Sidereals should have that innately....) Also, Learned Spell Immunity applies to all variations of the spell, right, so he can't just drop one empowering to get through it? Or does his immunity-piercing bypass that? Well, that's kind of moot, I'm pretty sure you're just trying to make a point, not claim that he could realistically take on Sidereals, since Transcendental abilities are just *that* broken that the above hax won't really work most of the time.

Also, Specular with that would be hilarious. :P
 
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Final Phoenix is coming along. I added some fluff that says a phoenix that avoids using its Immolation ability for 100 years can conduct a ritual to cause itself to be reborn with 20 additional HD. When it gains 80 HD it becomes a Great Phoenix and gets spiffy new powers (and must wait 1000 years between immolations). When it hits 160 HD it becomes a Final Phoenix and gains a bunch more abilities.

[MENTION=61612]Belzamus[/MENTION]: To be fair, only some of that hax comes from Improved Metamagic, but taking it once doubles their damage output, which is a bit much for a single feat. Most of it's from the fact that Twin Spell bypasses the "One Quicken/Round without AMC" limitation, which means Improved Spell Mastery is probably much better than intended (taking it 16 times was presumably to allow you to cast 5 9th level spells per round, not 25). Oh, and some simple optimisation using the fact that Empowered x4 Twinned x2 (9x) does more damage than either Twinned x4 (5x) or Empowered x8 (5x) without using more spell slots like Quicken does. Damage actually scales with the square of spell level.

EDIT: And then there's Avasculate, most broken of all broken spells. Twinned xMany Avasculate cuts someone's HP to single digits (Boccob's 60th level spell slots can be used to prepare Twinned x13 Avasculate, which reduces the target's HP by a factor of 8192. Sure, it's a death effect, but if a Death god shows up with it, bad things happen). Then you get to humiliate them by killing them with a single casting of Quickened Magic Missile.

And even using core spells, there's Energy Drain. 2d4 negative levels. It's ninth level, so Boccob can do the same Empowered x13 Twinned x3 routine for 112.5 negative levels on average. And then cast it again twelve times.

Also, Learned Spell Immunity applies to all variations of the spell, right, so he can't just drop one empowering to get through it? Or does his immunity-piercing bypass that?

I assumed Learned Spell Immunity granted Magic Immunity under certain circumstances, which is bypassed by Magic Porfolio. It has 'immunity' in its name, but doesn't explicitly say it provides an immunity. Oh Upper_Krust, why didn't you spend any time trying to explain how your abilities were supposed to interact? It's another "DM needs to make a ruling" situation.

Well, that's kind of moot, I'm pretty sure you're just trying to make a point, not claim that he could realistically take on Sidereals, since Transcendental abilities are just *that* broken that the above hax won't really work most of the time.

Yeah, he can kill poorly optimised sidereals, not competent ones.
 
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So, I've been thinking of things to do with the Heka.

Was considering Pseudonatural and throwing Intermediate Deity (of strength and destruction) on to it, Using Upper_Krust's Heka by the way. That only brings him up to ECL 153, though. Maybe add some class levels to him? I was considering giving him either spiked chains or throwing weapons.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
 
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Oh good. So he can only deal 335,790 damage per round by casting Empowered x43 Twinned x3 Force Missiles 13 times a round, one-shotting any competitor. For a second there I thought he was too good. They're immune to magic? Or have Spell Abatement and Learned Spell Immunity? Doesn't matter since he penetrates Magic immunity 50% of the time, and the highest-hp competitor only has 100k HP. Creatures without the Chaotic subtype (Most Creatures) have it worse. Empowered x37 Twinned x3 Maw of Chaos, because it does 585,585 damage per round, and not even Force Immunity will stop it. Neither spell has a save.

Perhaps he's wanting to kill some Sidereals where 600k damage isn't enough?
You can drop Maw of Chaos in a Time Stop because it has a duration. Persist Time Stop (more than 300 feet from your target, to avoid Spell Stowaway) and alternate rounds of Twinned x57 Spell Enhancer (+58 to CL for his next spell, combined with Alter Reality and Inner Eye giving him a caster level of 312 to penetrate SR, enough to beat the SR of most First Ones) and Twinned x7 Empowered x81 Maw of Chaos (512,008 damage per round). Do this all day (infinite spells per day, so why not?). As soon as your Time Stop ends, your unfortunate target takes 3.7 billion damage, unless they're immune to magic, where it's only 1.8 billion. Take the time to cast (Widened) Forcecage, Dimensional Lock, Solid Fog, and a few other movement-restricting spells (at an insignificant reduction in damage) and they take that every round and can't escape. Make them all Tenacious with Anyfeat and even dropping a Disjunction every round while magic immune only cuts the damage to 400 million.

O.O

Wow. I had never actually sat down and crunched the numbers for what his levels of free meta-magic could really do before. I'm usually not much for playing mages myself, plus I had only been focusing on the Feanmerc side of the system with Boccob, trying to make sure his epic spells didn't get to powerful so I more or less ended up ignoring his automatic metamagic and what it is capable of.:blush:

Well, this certainly cannot stand. The only way I'm thinking we could keep Boccob from one-shotting the entire tournament and making this whole thread pointless would be to somehow limit the number of times he can empower or otherwise buff the damage on his spells using automatic meta-magic.

Suggestions anyone? Because I'm stumped on this one. It may take me a while to come up with a solution to this problem if no one else has any ideas.
 

Well... I can think of a few things. Nerf or ban Improved Metamagic. Don't allow more than 1 quickened spell per round unless they can take additional Swift or Standard actions. Don't allow Automatic Metamagic to work with spells past 9th level. Separate Spell Mastery and Auto Metamagic.

I don't know, just throwing out suggestions.
 

Okay, I'm thinking we're going to have to replace the Hekatonkheires with something else. They're just too overpowered with all those arms.

Ideas for a replacement?
 

EDIT: Improved Metamagic should be a Divine Ability, if you're not banning it outright (which is probably the best option, Wizards don't need three different ways of casting more powerful spells). Breaking up Improved Spell Capacity and Automatic Metamagic Capacity might be a thing. They were both good feats before you merged them. Perhaps combine Improved Spell Capacity with an ability that lets the user learn one Epic spell of the level of the slot ISC grants without paying the research cost, so you don't have the annoying problem of having to re-research your spells as you level up because they go obsolete. And there's a point to designing epic spells at levels other than "The absolute maximum that you can reliably cast" because you get a bunch of lower-level ones for free.

Twinned and Repeat spells should only be able to be applied more than once through AMC.

Final Phoenix
Colossal Magical Beast (3 VSCs)
Hit Dice: 160d20+11,040 (25,280 hp)
Initiative: +60 (+32 dex, +8 feat +20 sacred), Perfect, Sixth Sense
Speed: 300 ft., fly 2,730 ft. (perfect)
AC: 251 (-8 size, +32 Dex, +113 natural (16 hd +69 con +35 size), +83 deflection +20 sacred +1 dodge), touch 138, flat-footed 250, dodge, mobility
Base Attack/Grapple: +160/+239
Attack: Bite +299 melee (30d10+64/19-20/x2 plus 40d20 divine fire)
Attack: Ethereal Flames +299 melee transdimensional touch (240d20+340 divine fire)
Full Attack: Bite +299/+299 melee (30d10+64/19-20/x2 plus 40d20 divine fire) and 2 Claws +299/+299/+294/+289/+284 melee (20d10+21/19-20/x2 plus 40d20 divine fire) and 2 wings +299/+299 melee (8d6+21 plus 40d20 divine fire) and Tail +299 melee (8d6+21 plus 40d20 divine fire plus Perfect Prismatic Strike)
Space/Reach: 60 ft/30ft
Special Attacks: Shriek, spell-like abilities, ethereal flames
Special Qualities: Uncanny Dodge, DR 160/Epic and Evil, Immolation, Low-Light Vision x20, Planar Travel, Perfect Spell-like metamagic, SR 175, telepathy, defensive aura, darkvision 600ft, resist sonic and electricity 90, immune to fire, ageing, death effects, disintegration, polymorphing, ability damage and drain, disease, charms, poison, compulsions, paralysis, poison and petrification, Fast Heal 80, energy aura, phoenix flames
Saves: Fort: +253 Ref: +219 Will: +212
Abilities: Str 96, Dex 74, Con 148, Int 50, Wis 64, Cha 180
Skills: Omnicompetent (All Skills +163 ranks +20 Sacred + Ability Score + Synergy)
Feats: Enlarge Spell, Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Flyby Attack, Heighten Spell Improved Critical (claw), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Maximise Spell, Improved Critical (Bite), Quicken Spell, Improved Natural Attack(bite, claw), Rapidstrike, Improved Rapistrike, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack, Improved Flight, Ability Focus (Shriek, Immolation), Transdimensional Spell, Alertness, Combat Casting, Dodge, Mobilty, Widen Spell, Split Ray
Epic Feats: Metamagic Freedom, Weapon Abatement, Automatic Metamagic Capacity x40, Automatic Metamagic Capacity x10, Improved Metamagic x2, Superior Initiative, Blinding Speed, Sixth Sense, Ethereal Vision, Improved Combat Casting, Enhance Spell, Great Charisma x12, Etheric Vision
Divine Abilities: Divine Toughness, Spell Abatement, Celerity, Heavenly Mind, Heavenly Soul, Perfect Initiative, Learned Spell Immunity, Maven, Omnicompetent, Quickness, Anyfeat, Eternal Freedom, Third Eye
Cosmic Abilities: Legendary Charisma, Legendary Constitution
Climate/Terrain: Any land
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 108
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral good
Advancement: -

Shriek (Ex): Once every 1d2 rounds, a great phoenix can utter a war shriek that forces every opponent within 425 feet to succeed on a Will save (DC 205, charisma-based) or be deafened and slowed for 8 rounds, and takes 160d20 divine sonic damage (Reflex half, same DC). This is a sonic, mind-affecting effect.
Spell-Like Abilities: Always active: detect evil, greater arcane sight, holy aura, true seeing, owl's wisdom, eagle's splendour
at will - blindness, delayed blast fireball, mass eagle's splendour, greater blink, blur, colour spray, continual flame, mass cure critical wounds, dancing lights, find the path, find traps, fireball, fire seeds, fire shield, fire storm, heal, mass heal, holy word, incendiary cloud, greater invisibility, misdirection, negative energy protection, neutralise poison, mass owl's wisdom, plane shift, polymorph, prismatic sphere, prismatic spray, prismatic wall, produce flame, pyrotechnics, rainbow pattern, reincarnate, remove fear, remove curse, scorching ray, scintillating pattern, see invisibility, summon nature's ally IX, greater teleport, true seeing, veil, wall of fire
3/day: miracle
1/day: contingent true resurrection
Caster level 180th, save DC 115 + spell level
After 10 rounds of ritual and preparation: dismissal, dispel evil, dispel magic, greater dispel magic, mordenkainen's disjunction, banishment, caster level 340th, save DC 115 + spell level
Phoenix Flames (Su): A Greater Phoenix is usually wreathed in flames, although it can suppress this ability as a free action. Any creature striking it with a melee weapon takes 40d20 divine fire damage (no save), and its natural weapons deal an additional 40d20 divine fire damage. All fire damage dealt by a Greater Phoenix is considered divine fire damage.
Defensive Aura (Su): A Great Phoenix has a deflection bonus to AC equal to its charisma modifier
Immolation (Su): When it knows that death is near, once per day, a phoenix (which must be on less than half hit points) immolates itself as a full-round action. This produces a cloud of flame 850 feet high in a 425 foot foot radius spread, each creature in the area takes 320d100 divine fire damage (reflex DC 181 half, constitution-based). This action kills the original phoenix and produces a new one, fully grown and unharmed from the ashes. This new bird arrives at the end of the round. When a Final Phoenix is resurrected by its contingent true resurrection spell-like ability (but not any other ability that restores the dead), it deals 240d20 divine fire damage (reflex half, same DC) to all creatures within 425 feet.
Planar Travel (Su): A phoenix can enter and exit the Astral Plane or Ethereal Plane at will and navigate through these planes without error or risk.
Ethereal Flames (Su): A Great Phoenix's flames can harm creatures on coexistent planes, creatures on coexistent planes within the areas of its Phoenix Flames, Energy Aura or Immolation abilities take damage as if they were on the same plane as the Great Phoenix. As a standard action it make make a melee touch attack against a creature on a coexistent plane dealing 240d20 divine fire damage plus quadruple its charisma modifier.
Perfect Spell-Like Metamagic (Ex): A great phoenix can apply any of its metamagic feats to a spell-like ability without changing the action of the spell. It gains Metamagic Freedom as a bonus feat, and Automatic Metamagic Capacity equal to one quarter of its hit dice (40, in this case). Any metamagic it applies this way is considered to also Heighten the spell in question by the spell slot adjustment of the metamagic
Telepathy (Su): A great phoenix can communicate telepathically with any creature within 6000 feet that has a language. It can also speak with any avians, whether or not they have a language.
Uncanny Dodge: As the rogue feature of the same name. A Great Phoenix has an effective rogue level equal to its hit dice for purposes of flanking.
Energy Aura (Ex): All creatures within a Great Phoenix's reach suffer 16d20 divine fire damage every round (no save). While flying, the flames shed from its wings persist, and any creature that enters a square that the Great Phoenix threatened at any point during the round takes damage as if it were adjacent to the Phoenix.
Prismatic Tail (Su): A Final Phoenix has a tail that shines with all colours of the rainbow, it gains a secondary tail natural attack (appropriate for its size and virtual size) which deals extra damage as Perfect Prismatic Strike (40 damage dice in this case) on a successful hit.
Heat Haze (Ex): When in atmosphere, a Final Phoenix using its Phoenix Flames ability produces enough heat to distort the air around it. All creatures within 425 feet of a Final Phoenix gain a 20% miss chance (the phoenix itself ignores this miss chance), while the phoenix itself gains a 50% miss chance, and the air within this area is considered Burning Heat (see Sandstorm page 13). These miss-chances result from concealment.
 
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Damn, that is one hardcore bird. I'd say the most dangerous thing about it is the cosmic fire blood it has. Most of the fighters here who rely on lots of attacks will kill themselves before they kill it. I was gonna say Perfection might have a decent chance, but his beam will likely knock it to half health, after which it can just immolate and repeat, staying out of his reach until it kills him. Vasthultus looks like he could kill it, but if it got a turn, it could likely kite him with flyby touch attacks, depending on how high the arena's ceiling is. Pretty sure Alabaster would go down in a maelstrom of fiery blood as soon as he started up the blender on this thing. If it has a sense of humor, it'll just fly in front of him and sit there. :p

Boccob... does he even bear mentioning right now? :p

Also, is it supposed to have d100s? That hp figure doesn't look quite right.

Anyway, Buugi, that is one of the most elegant monsters I have ever seen. Serious respect.
 

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