A Wizardcentric Guy misses some of his 3e spells

[Ravilah]

This is NOT a let's-all-hate-4e-together post. I have loved playing and DMing this system.

But I have always been extremely fond of playing wizards (and using wizard BBEGs), and I kinda miss the long lists of available spells. I miss Flesh-to-Stone. I miss Polymorph. I miss my host of illusion spells. I miss casting Fly on my friends. And I really really really really miss preparing three fireballs for one battle.
And I miss Schools of Magic...not the mechanics of it, more like the fluff. I've tried to think of a way to reinstate magic schools into my world, but can't think of how to make it fit mechanically.

I dunno. 4e has so much that I like (I ADORE the simpler skill system), but wizards used to be my favorite class and can't seem to get my groove with the 4e wizard.

This not a gripe. I just wondered if anyone else felt the same, and if anyone had any idea how to:

1.) Fit in Schools of Magic
2.) Include familiars (that fulfill a purpose and don't suck)
3.) Work in spell components in a way that is not too complicated or stupid

I'm trying to make my homebrew 3.5 world convert into 4e and these are some major obstacles for me.

Thanks!
R

 

[Harlekin]

This is NOT a let's-all-hate-4e-together post. I have loved playing and DMing this system.

But I have always been extremely fond of playing wizards (and using wizard BBEGs), and I kinda miss the long lists of available spells. I miss Flesh-to-Stone. I miss Polymorph. I miss my host of illusion spells. I miss casting Fly on my friends. And I really really really really miss preparing three fireballs for one battle.
And I miss Schools of Magic...not the mechanics of it, more like the fluff. I've tried to think of a way to reinstate magic schools into my world, but can't think of how to make it fit mechanically.

I dunno. 4e has so much that I like (I ADORE the simpler skill system), but wizards used to be my favorite class and can't seem to get my groove with the 4e wizard.

This not a gripe. I just wondered if anyone else felt the same, and if anyone had any idea how to:

1.) Fit in Schools of Magic
2.) Include familiars (that fulfill a purpose and don't suck)
3.) Work in spell components in a way that is not too complicated or stupid

I'm trying to make my homebrew 3.5 world convert into 4e and these are some major obstacles for me.

Thanks!
R

On your last question: Have you taken a look at the components in the end of Adventurer's vault. Rather than being necessary for casting a spell, they enhance the power of a spell.

 

[Scribble]

This not a gripe. I just wondered if anyone else felt the same, and if anyone had any idea how to:

1.) Fit in Schools of Magic

Well, right now, though not the same, flavor-wise you can divide the 3 implements into different schools... Like a Wizard Academy might consist of the Orb Wizards, the Wand Wizards and the Staff Wizards...

I think right now we don't have enough powers to start breaking them into "schools" like they were... But I bet after a while we'll start seeing them.

2.) Include familiars (that fulfill a purpose and don't suck)

Eh... Hrmm what do you need them to do? I mean flavorwise you can just say your dude has a familiar. Maybe do something like spend a feat to have a "linked" familiar... it functions similar to how the Figurines of Wonderous power function... But maybe you can every so often toss a close spell through it, ot gain some sort of bonus when it's nearbye?

3.) Work in spell components in a way that is not too complicated or stupid

Components always were a two pronged thing for me... Flavorwise- cool... Mechanically... annoying.

 

[MerricB]

]1.) Fit in Schools of Magic
2.) Include familiars (that fulfill a purpose and don't suck)
3.) Work in spell components in a way that is not too complicated or stupid

1)... I don't miss Schools at all, so I'll be no help there.
2)... I do believe they're coming, not like that helps now.
3)... Have you seen the Reagents in Adventurer's Vault? They may add something you're looking for.

Cheers!

 

[Nymrohd]

It's too early yet I think. Give it time and wizards, moreso than other classes, will easily end up with 10-12 spells per level to choose. As everyone else said, I think familiars will come (probably with arcane power), reagents in AV are probably better than components also.
As far as schools of magic go I don't really know how to replicate this. Most things are evocations and conjurations nowadays, with a few illusions and abjurations or defensive transmutations in utilities. I do think though that with a limited number of spells, you can have far more cohesive traditions of magic in 4E. Wizards from that region or arcane college for instance may all know specific spells and so on. That could be fluffy enough for me.

 

[Stalker0]

One thing I do miss are a lot of illusions, though I've heard they are coming out with an illusionist class in the future.

One thing I would like to see are rituals that give me some of that old school wizard feel.

For example, instead of a ritual that lets me make one illusion, give me a ritual that empowers me for an hour to make all kinds of illusions, that kind of thing.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm certain Arcane Power will do all but recreate the spell schools.

As for spell components, Isn't that pretty much all ritual magic?

 

[Klaus]

1 - Try this:
Conjuration: all spells with the Conjuration keyword, and all spells with the Acid keyword
Illusion: all spells with the "illusion" keyword (including the new ones in the Class Acts: Wizard" article, two Dragons ago.
Transmutation: Prestidigitation, Icy Terrain, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, all spells with the "teleportation" keyword (except Conjuration ones), Levitate, Stoneskin, Disintegrate, Fly, Mass Fly, Time Stop.
Evocation: all spells with Fire, Cold, Lightning and Thunder
Abjuration: all spells that provide protection. from Shield to Forcecage
This is all very off-the-top-of-the-head.

2 - Get yourself a pseudodragon. It'll adventure with the party and get stronger from it (gaining XP and levelling up). The price should comparable to a warhorse, so you either buy one or ask the DM to include one as "treasure", instead of some other valuable.

3 - Like was said before, use the Reagents in Adventurer's Vault. Components would now enhance spells, instead of being required for them.

 

[Siran Dunmorgan]

1. Schools of Magic

Also known as specialization. The single greatest issue with this is that there is not—yet—a large variety of spells to choose from to compose a specialty per se.

For the most part, the official plan seems to be to have distinct arcane or divine classes that encapsulate the specialties, e.g. an explicit Illusionist class.

An alternative—if someone wants to put some work into it, since I don't believe that this will be the official solution—is to consider keyword-based feats such as Astral Fire to be merely the first layer of a number of 'specialist' feat trees that enhanced powers based on keywords.

2. Familiars

The original plan based on the 4th Edition previews seems to suggest that familiars will fall somewhere between what we presently think of as a summoned animal—think bag of tricks from Adventurer's Vault—and an implement.

This suggests, by the way, that familiars will be something that can be acquired by any arcane class, not only wizards.

The wizard in my current 4th Edition game, for example, wanted a familiar for story/flavor reasons: I provided her with an otherwise undefined creature of the Feywild that can take on the form of any tiny beast or appear as a will-o-wisp-like floating sphere. In glowing sphere form, it sheds light as a sunrod, but otherwise has no mechanical effect on the game.

My suspicion is that acquiring a familiar will cost a feat, that it will use a generic "tiny beast" pattern similar to that of the gray bag of tricks—including using it's masters actions in the same way that summoned beasts do—that spells can be cast through it as through an implement, and that further feats, items, and possibly rituals will enhance its capabilities.

Given the historic patterns of Dungeons & Dragons, the familiar will likely be replaceable at each tier, with alternative rules allowing for upgrading a familiar rather than replacing it.

3. Components

Others have mentioned reagents as described in Adventurer's Vault; I will add that there are several different classes of components described as applicable to rituals in the Player's Handbook as well.

For story reasons, it may sometimes be the case that a specific rare or unique component is required for a specific ritual, but this will be a matter adjudicated by the story, and not a general aspect of the rules.

Personally, I tend to run components in a fairy-tale, Stardust sort of way: they tend to things like "a pinch of young love", "a spoonful of a miser's greed", "a few strands of laughter", and so on.

—Siran Dunmorgan

 

[Mercule]

TBut I have always been extremely fond of playing wizards (and using wizard BBEGs), and I kinda miss the long lists of available spells. I miss Flesh-to-Stone. I miss Polymorph. I miss my host of illusion spells. I miss casting Fly on my friends. And I really really really really miss preparing three fireballs for one battle.

I've always liked the concept of spell resource management, but hated the implementation. My hope is in waiting for the Arcane Powers book for breadth.

1.) Fit in Schools of Magic
2.) Include familiars (that fulfill a purpose and don't suck)
3.) Work in spell components in a way that is not too complicated or stupid

1. I hope (and expect, actually) that future arcane classes will end up rounding things out. What I'd like to see is, essentially, a 4e implementation of things like warmage, beguiler, dread necromancer. Basically, a bunch of arcanist with a specialty and ritual casting to bridge to what the 3e wizard was. The PHB wizard is the warmage (aka evoker) and the others are hopefully forthcoming.

2. I have yet to see an implementation of familiars that I think "works", so I'm not really missing it in 4e. If they do something neat, I'll be suitably impressed, though.

3. See familiars. Flavorful, but a pain. I haven't looked at reagents, though.