"A World Worth Saving": Chris Perkins on NPCs and GMing style
- Thread starter pemerton
- Start date
I think it is less important to introduce characters that the players like, exactly, than to make the NPCs feel real. This includes having NPCs be generous and grateful if the PCs are Heroic-heroic; and obsequious-to-terrified if the PCs are Homeric-heroic. Defaulting to the latter if the PCs are unknown but swaggering around in obviously powerful gear.
This does, of course, require ignoring most/all of the standard DMing "don't give your players an inch" advice.
This does, of course, require ignoring most/all of the standard DMing "don't give your players an inch" advice.
delericho
Legend
Another good example.
I have no problem with that. Most of the advice is... dubious at best.
I think that you are spot-on as to what Perkins has in mind with his advice.
"The majority of" is pretty clear. But isn't even close to a synonym for "all", which is how you paraphrased it back.
Ahnehnois
First Post
Consider that hair split.
Good topic, Pemerton.
I agree with the basic point of the article, but I put it more succinctly: "You need a Shire". For two reasons:
(1) "A World Worth Fighting For" (WWI British slogan, and the point of the article)
(2) The hero's journey idea of moving from the mundane world to the extraordinary (the Feywild is much more interesting if it doesn't become quotidien and old hat).
Quoting the 3 specific bits of advice in Chris Perkins article:
<<Have an NPC show some initiative. Here's a good example: While the characters are investigating a series of murders in a large city, a gang of assassins jumps them in a darkened alley. During the fight, one of the assassins is wounded and flees. Instead of making the PCs chase down the miscreant, have a city guard or helpful passerby tackle the assassin and thwart the escape. Or, have a couple irksome street urchins on a rooftop hurl rocks at the assassin to harry him. Suddenly, it feels like the world is on the party's side for a change!
Have an NPC throw the party a bone. Imagine the party is paying an NPC wizard to craft a magic item or an NPC priest to raise a dead character. In addition to doing what he or she is paid to do, the NPC might throw in a free "upgrade" to the magic item or a free batch of healing potions the party can use at some later date. Of course, you don't need to bribe players with magic items to make them like your world. Even the simplest gesture, such as a farmer tipping his hat to the PCs or offering them fresh apples as they wander by, does the trick.
Have an NPC solve a problem. Hapless NPCs are constantly looking toward the adventurers to solve their problems for them, but players are more inclined to respect an NPC who isn't useless. If a mystery has the party befuddled, an NPC might volunteer a helpful bit of advice that steers the party in the right direction. If the characters visit a town threatened by orcs, an NPC woodsman or scout might single-handedly capture an orc that the heroes can interrogate to find out where its fellow orcs are hiding. The PCs shouldn't have to solve all of the world's problems alone.
>>
While I agree with the sentiment, I also agree with Pemerton's point about the PC's being the main actors.
Examples of interactions with NPC's in my campaign recently:
(1) PC's meet refugees. PC starting a settlement decides, "hey, free people". They ask permission of the local lord to relocate the people, and pay for supplies. Later on in the campaign, they'll have headstart on getting their home base going. For now, they get to feel good and get the appreciation of the local clergy.
(2) PC (Cleric 7) was visit an NPC (Cleric 4). A castle guard came to get the NPC to help the town's lord, who was sick or poisoned. Turned out to be a trick (which the guard wasn't in on) and they were trapped in a dungeon cell with an Owlbear, meant to kill the NPC -- the baddies didn't count on the PC being with her. Together, they barely survive the fight, and the PC has the bright idea of blocking the door and sealing it as best they can.
The PC casts Message (10 minute casting time), and contacts the party for help.
The PC's realize they probably can't storm the castle, so they go to the NPC father of one of the PC's, the town bishop who they are on good terms with (thanks to helping the refugees among other good deeds), and ask him to Message a high-level mage they met earlier through the bishop, who teleports around continent trading magic items.
The Bishop Messages the Mage, the Mage uses his Crystal Ball to see what's going on (people breaking down the cell door to finish off the PC & NPC Cleric), so he teleports in, then teleports out with the PC & NPC in the nick of time. He will charge them later, but for now, he saved their lives. They'll get the PC back in the morning -- he didn't teleport to the party, but to the safety of his own tower. The PC gets to see a city on the other end of the continent that he'd otherwise probably never see in the meantime.
3) PC's are working with the Town Guard and Militia, dealing with a coup in the town (which started with abducting NPC leaders, which the PC cleric stumbled into discovering).
So far, the PC's have done 90% of the fighting, but the Warrior 1's and so forth have tried to help, and the remaining Town Guard leader and Bishop have agreed the PC's leader (a Fighter) should command all the town's meagre forces.
So I think I have the same idea as the article, but I try to make the story about the PC's/good ideas coming from the PC's. The PC's are always the protagonists, after all.
I agree with the basic point of the article, but I put it more succinctly: "You need a Shire". For two reasons:
(1) "A World Worth Fighting For" (WWI British slogan, and the point of the article)
(2) The hero's journey idea of moving from the mundane world to the extraordinary (the Feywild is much more interesting if it doesn't become quotidien and old hat).
Quoting the 3 specific bits of advice in Chris Perkins article:
<<Have an NPC show some initiative. Here's a good example: While the characters are investigating a series of murders in a large city, a gang of assassins jumps them in a darkened alley. During the fight, one of the assassins is wounded and flees. Instead of making the PCs chase down the miscreant, have a city guard or helpful passerby tackle the assassin and thwart the escape. Or, have a couple irksome street urchins on a rooftop hurl rocks at the assassin to harry him. Suddenly, it feels like the world is on the party's side for a change!
Have an NPC throw the party a bone. Imagine the party is paying an NPC wizard to craft a magic item or an NPC priest to raise a dead character. In addition to doing what he or she is paid to do, the NPC might throw in a free "upgrade" to the magic item or a free batch of healing potions the party can use at some later date. Of course, you don't need to bribe players with magic items to make them like your world. Even the simplest gesture, such as a farmer tipping his hat to the PCs or offering them fresh apples as they wander by, does the trick.
Have an NPC solve a problem. Hapless NPCs are constantly looking toward the adventurers to solve their problems for them, but players are more inclined to respect an NPC who isn't useless. If a mystery has the party befuddled, an NPC might volunteer a helpful bit of advice that steers the party in the right direction. If the characters visit a town threatened by orcs, an NPC woodsman or scout might single-handedly capture an orc that the heroes can interrogate to find out where its fellow orcs are hiding. The PCs shouldn't have to solve all of the world's problems alone.
>>
While I agree with the sentiment, I also agree with Pemerton's point about the PC's being the main actors.
Examples of interactions with NPC's in my campaign recently:
(1) PC's meet refugees. PC starting a settlement decides, "hey, free people". They ask permission of the local lord to relocate the people, and pay for supplies. Later on in the campaign, they'll have headstart on getting their home base going. For now, they get to feel good and get the appreciation of the local clergy.
(2) PC (Cleric 7) was visit an NPC (Cleric 4). A castle guard came to get the NPC to help the town's lord, who was sick or poisoned. Turned out to be a trick (which the guard wasn't in on) and they were trapped in a dungeon cell with an Owlbear, meant to kill the NPC -- the baddies didn't count on the PC being with her. Together, they barely survive the fight, and the PC has the bright idea of blocking the door and sealing it as best they can.
The PC casts Message (10 minute casting time), and contacts the party for help.
The PC's realize they probably can't storm the castle, so they go to the NPC father of one of the PC's, the town bishop who they are on good terms with (thanks to helping the refugees among other good deeds), and ask him to Message a high-level mage they met earlier through the bishop, who teleports around continent trading magic items.
The Bishop Messages the Mage, the Mage uses his Crystal Ball to see what's going on (people breaking down the cell door to finish off the PC & NPC Cleric), so he teleports in, then teleports out with the PC & NPC in the nick of time. He will charge them later, but for now, he saved their lives. They'll get the PC back in the morning -- he didn't teleport to the party, but to the safety of his own tower. The PC gets to see a city on the other end of the continent that he'd otherwise probably never see in the meantime.
3) PC's are working with the Town Guard and Militia, dealing with a coup in the town (which started with abducting NPC leaders, which the PC cleric stumbled into discovering).
So far, the PC's have done 90% of the fighting, but the Warrior 1's and so forth have tried to help, and the remaining Town Guard leader and Bishop have agreed the PC's leader (a Fighter) should command all the town's meagre forces.
So I think I have the same idea as the article, but I try to make the story about the PC's/good ideas coming from the PC's. The PC's are always the protagonists, after all.
I agree. I express it as -- NPC's (and monsters) should act to pursue their own goals, as they best see fit (they don't have complete info and not all are smart). They should never JUST be mindless pawns of the DM, chess pieces to set up fights that have no rationale, etc.
I guess I'm a "method actor" DM.
Another thought . . . this article is somewhat in the tradition of debating "High Noon" (lone lawman in a cowardly town that won't help him) versus "Rio Bravo" (lawman helped by several low-level NPC's who do their best, without overshadowing the fact that he's literally John Wayne).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Bravo_(film)#High_Noon_debate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Bravo_(film)#High_Noon_debate
Celebrim
Legend
Well, I generally agree. I feel that the tropes of having NPC's always hostile, never grateful to the PC's, never helpful, and if not villains then incompotents are grossly overdone and at this point tired.
The only real issue is ensuring that that the NPC's don't steel spotlight from the PC's.
My NPC's are notably compotent at just about everything that they do BUT combat. From a very early point in their careers, the combined martial might of the PC's is a serious threat to every individual person in the kingdom with the exception of their evil counterparts or counterpart. By the time they hit sixth level, they can be numbered amongst the most powerful combatants in an average nation in my game world, in part because not only are 6th level and up characters in my worlds fairly rare (perhaps a few hundred per kingdom) but the overwhelming percentage of those characters will be aging or elderly, with strength, dexterity, and constitution scores that are diminished by age or illness. And even among the middle aged, few will have been built with as high of point buy as the PC's, or be so well equipped in martial magic items. Sure, there are still a few along the Storm Coast that the PC's wouldn't want to duel, but it won't be long before their reputation will begin to spread through the region - champions with the skills of veterens and the vigor and health of the young, such amazing prodogies, the gods must be with them (often, this is literally true).
However, when it comes to skillfulness it takes a very high level to character to do what an average professional does in terms of crafting, appraisal, diplomacy, knowledge, ect. It's just that most members of the community aren't killing monsters on a daily basis. While the individual members of the community don't stand a chance going toe to toe with the PC party in combat, they tend to have well organized militaries that are trained in dealing with things like spellcasters, undead, werecreatures, and the like using crude but effective means. Communities tend to be extraordinarily ruthless when dealing with threats. NPC - even the good aligned ones - won't play fair or nice when it comes to dealing with individuals with powers they can barely comprehend. If a PC party ever was to run afoul of the law and were captured, I gaurantee that there would be no easy escape from jail. These are societies with medieval mentalities when it comes to crime and punishment.
Unless you take attributes that just make you generally unlikable or actually do things to harm regular people, the NPC's will tend to be favorably disposed to you, either because they want to get you to do things for them, or they are afraid of you, or they are in awe of you, or out of sincere gratitude or admiration. The PC's were honored by the city at 1st level, got an audience with thier Leige at 4th, were knighted by 6th, and now having been presented as champions at a foreign court to the most politically powerful individuals for 1000 miles. The NPC's are happy to ingratiate themselves to heroes who seem to have the favor of the benevolent gods. But if you abuse NPC's, then a very different result is achieved. These societies have endured for centuries before the PC's came along. There is nothing that the PC's can do that hasn't been tried before, and there is little that they can do for which the society has no defense. The only reason that the world needs the PC's... is that the antagonists are just so formidable. But eventually, even if the PC's were to fail, though it would mean a much bigger mess, someone would come along to clean it up. And if the NPC's turn heel, well, they'll succeed for a while certainly, but eventually there will be this band of adventurers...
Or not, there are certainly places in the world 'bad guys' have been ruling for centuries.
The only real issue is ensuring that that the NPC's don't steel spotlight from the PC's.
My NPC's are notably compotent at just about everything that they do BUT combat. From a very early point in their careers, the combined martial might of the PC's is a serious threat to every individual person in the kingdom with the exception of their evil counterparts or counterpart. By the time they hit sixth level, they can be numbered amongst the most powerful combatants in an average nation in my game world, in part because not only are 6th level and up characters in my worlds fairly rare (perhaps a few hundred per kingdom) but the overwhelming percentage of those characters will be aging or elderly, with strength, dexterity, and constitution scores that are diminished by age or illness. And even among the middle aged, few will have been built with as high of point buy as the PC's, or be so well equipped in martial magic items. Sure, there are still a few along the Storm Coast that the PC's wouldn't want to duel, but it won't be long before their reputation will begin to spread through the region - champions with the skills of veterens and the vigor and health of the young, such amazing prodogies, the gods must be with them (often, this is literally true).
However, when it comes to skillfulness it takes a very high level to character to do what an average professional does in terms of crafting, appraisal, diplomacy, knowledge, ect. It's just that most members of the community aren't killing monsters on a daily basis. While the individual members of the community don't stand a chance going toe to toe with the PC party in combat, they tend to have well organized militaries that are trained in dealing with things like spellcasters, undead, werecreatures, and the like using crude but effective means. Communities tend to be extraordinarily ruthless when dealing with threats. NPC - even the good aligned ones - won't play fair or nice when it comes to dealing with individuals with powers they can barely comprehend. If a PC party ever was to run afoul of the law and were captured, I gaurantee that there would be no easy escape from jail. These are societies with medieval mentalities when it comes to crime and punishment.
Unless you take attributes that just make you generally unlikable or actually do things to harm regular people, the NPC's will tend to be favorably disposed to you, either because they want to get you to do things for them, or they are afraid of you, or they are in awe of you, or out of sincere gratitude or admiration. The PC's were honored by the city at 1st level, got an audience with thier Leige at 4th, were knighted by 6th, and now having been presented as champions at a foreign court to the most politically powerful individuals for 1000 miles. The NPC's are happy to ingratiate themselves to heroes who seem to have the favor of the benevolent gods. But if you abuse NPC's, then a very different result is achieved. These societies have endured for centuries before the PC's came along. There is nothing that the PC's can do that hasn't been tried before, and there is little that they can do for which the society has no defense. The only reason that the world needs the PC's... is that the antagonists are just so formidable. But eventually, even if the PC's were to fail, though it would mean a much bigger mess, someone would come along to clean it up. And if the NPC's turn heel, well, they'll succeed for a while certainly, but eventually there will be this band of adventurers...
Or not, there are certainly places in the world 'bad guys' have been ruling for centuries.
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