Ability Boost Items: A Crutch or a Tool?

[Cbas10]

Hong has a point - for many intents and purposes, a +1 sword and an item that gives a +2 enhancement to Strength are equivalent. And a masterwork weapon is similar to the magic sword, if somewhat less potent. So why discriminate? Help is help, right?

Ummm....you guys are focusing in on a single statement taken out of context here; I was never comparing the utility/need/dependancy of weapons vs. ability-boost items. I never even mentioned any sort of magic item ouside of the ability-boost items. I'm not trying to be argumentative; just trying to make sure we swing back to the topic.

 

[Nightfall]

What I remember of Coleridge is that you can sing the Rime of the Ancient Mariner to the tune of "The Yellow Rose of Texas".

NOW that was a gut buster. Course I could sing most of Emily Dickenson's poetry to the same tune.

What usually happens is that the guy playing the fighter remembers his +5 holy flaming ghost touch greatsword, his +5 heavy fortification full plate, his +6 belt of Strength, and his +6 amulet of Con. Everybody else at the table, however, just remembers the uber-warrior with the big sword who could really dish out the damage, and take it as well. The items are a big deal to the guy who has them, but nobody else usually cares.

Yeah especially since THEY aren't using them.

 

[Nightfall]

Well, maybe Cbas01 is talking about a video game min/max session or something.

Or he's just thinking you must be Hercules to do everything right. I mean look at Odyesses. He didn't have much but with the right hot poker and some cunning he did well, even for a guy that got locked in with a man eating cycolps.

 

[Darkness]

Yah, real men/women/ambiguously-gendered beings don't need such crutches as magic items to go on adventures.









Assuming they're monks with the Vow of Poverty feat, anyway.

 

[Agback]

In the end, if a character cannot do something without one of these magical items, it is a crutch. If the items merely make things easier, it is a tool.

I can't go along with that definition. And even if I did it would mean that a wizard's spellbook was a crutch.

I would prefer to work by a definition that recognised that a crutch is useful or necessary to a person who is disabled, but of no use to an able-bodied character (except as a crude club or firewood). Tools, on the other hand, are often capable of more in the hands of master craftsmen than of clumsy dolts like me.

So the fact that a stat-boosting item repairs the deficiency of a character with a very low stat is not conclusive. The fact that an extra few points of strength is still useful even to an 8th-level half-orc barbarian with a natural strength of 22, on the other hand, is decisive.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Cbas10]

I can't go along with that definition. And even if I did it would mean that a wizard's spellbook was a crutch.

Okay, but it is very clear what "these magical items" referred to in my post; clearly, it was not about weapons or spellbooks.

I would prefer to work by a definition that recognised that a crutch is useful or necessary to a person who is disabled, but of no use to an able-bodied character (except as a crude club or firewood). Tools, on the other hand, are often capable of more in the hands of master craftsmen than of clumsy dolts like me.

6 of one, half-dozen of the other. I suppose I could edit my post to make things clearer. Instead of "crutch," insert, "object that is used by someone clearly unable to perform a set of actions if they did not have that object." Similarly, "tool" could be replaced with, "object that is used to merely augment a person's already-competent skill."

 

[Agback]

Okay, but it is very clear what "these magical items" referred to in my post; clearly, it was not about weapons or spellbooks.

In which case I have to suggest that there is nothing wrong with crutches, since no-one sneers at wizards for needing spellbooks or at fighters for needing weapons. So if you object to stat-boosting items it must be for some other reason.

6 of one, half-dozen of the other. I suppose I could edit my post to make things clearer.

Don't do that. It would make the bulk of the debate incomprehensible.

Instead of "crutch," insert, "object that is used by someone clearly unable to perform a set of actions if they did not have that object." Similarly, "tool" could be replaced with, "object that is used to merely augment a person's already-competent skill."

Okay then.

"In the end, if a character cannot do something without one of these magical items, it is an object that is used by someone clearly unable to perform a set of actions if they did not have that object.. If the items merely make things easier, it is an object that is used to merely augment a person's already-competent skill.."

Read and understood. Now let's discuss whether ability boost items are a crutch or a tool, and whether any stigma ought to attach to using them because of that.

I will kick the ball off by noting that an item that boosts wisdom, charisma, or intelligence can make high-level spells available to a cleric, paladin, sorceror, bard, or wizard of high level but modest stats, who would otherwise be clearly unable to cast them.

Regards,



Agback

 

[Nightfall]

Yah, real men/women/ambiguously-gendered beings don't need such crutches as magic items to go on adventures.









Assuming they're monks with the Vow of Poverty feat, anyway.

LOL! What about forsakers with Vows of Poverty?

 

[Darkness]

LOL! What about forsakers with Vows of Poverty?

Ought to work, assuming you're into that kind of thing.

 

[Urbannen]

I think they are crutches. However, the game of Dungeons & Dragons has been designed with the assumption that PCs will acquire stat-enhancing items. Therefore, they are not technically crutches, they are the normal tools of a player character in a standard Dungeons & Dragons game.

Personally I like the campaigns I'm in in which no one has any stat-enhancing items and permanent magic items are fairly rare in general.