Ability damage

[GX.Sigma]

If ability damage is brought back I would want two changes implemented: first, no ability damage is permanent (aka deep six 3e-style ability drain) and second it shouldn't force major and laborious recalculation of your other game statistics.

Pretty much exactly this. Also, please have ability damage not cause enormous penalties (like losing all your higher-level spells, or otherwise make you useless/death spiral), and have it be easily cured, as with cure spells (DEX damage as a sprained ankle should be curable).

 

[SageMinerve]

I like the principle of ability damage but like many others, I despised how much of a pain in the rear end it was in 3rd ed.

My solution would be this: apply a -1 penalty to every check (ability/skill/attack...) related to the ability for every damage you've taken to that ability.

This way, the only paperwork you have is recording how much damage an ability has taken.

You've taken 3 Dexterity damage? Now you have a -3 penalty to all DEX-based checks until you heal the damage.

 

[Sunseeker]

As long as ability damage requires me to recalculate half my sheet, I am opposed to it. I would rather a spell just afflict me with all the affects of that recalculation rather than be forced to figure it out.

 

[ren1999]

Hello!

It's just a raw idea but what do you think?

Warder

I just finished Everflame and I'm still learning Pathfinder.

I like the idea of temporary ability damage. But I don't think that a reduction in constitution or another ability should kill the character or turn the character into a minion or something like that.

That means a character with 300 hit points can be killed after a reduction of only 26 constitution points or -26 constitution points. That's not right.

 

[GreyICE]

I don't want ability damage if it causes recalculation.

Like, instead of -4 strength, it could be "-4 to hit and -4 to damage."

It looks mechanically similar, but now you don't have to worry about checking your load numbers to see if you're suddenly crippled, or checking what feats you just lost prerequisites for.

Overall, the only thing more fiddly than ability damage was negative levels.

Now for a sprained ankle, here's a good penalty:

"-2 to movement, and -1 AC"

See? Very similar, but now every single skill on the sheet isn't recalculated, no feat problems, etc.

 

[Blackwarder]

You don't have skills in 5e it's all ability check with a small note of +2 to climb or +1 to charm a barmaid out of her cloths, no need to recalculate every skill.

Warder

 

[Shroomy]

I think that spells like cure light wounds should also be able to heal a limited amount of ability damage, especially Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity damage. IMO, hit points and this kind of ability damage are two ways of measuring physical damage (yes, I know that hit points have other, non-physical components), so a curing spell should be able to heal both. For example, a CLW spell could either heal 1d8 hit points or 1 point of ability damage.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I don't want ability damage if it causes recalculation.

Like, instead of -4 strength, it could be "-4 to hit and -4 to damage."

Now for a sprained ankle, here's a good penalty:

"-2 to movement, and -1 AC"

See? Very similar, but now every single skill on the sheet isn't recalculated, no feat problems, etc.

This whole thread is giving me Rolemaster flashbacks (thought not in a bad way)

On a failed climb check you roll on the impact critical table : " You took damage to your ankle, you take 5 extra hit points, are at -10 ft to movement and -1 AC for 1 day, or until healed" in a little box on a chart on parchment looking paper.

 

[Fanaelialae]

You don't have skills in 5e it's all ability check with a small note of +2 to climb or +1 to charm a barmaid out of her cloths, no need to recalculate every skill.

Warder

There's still the modifier cascade. Dexterity damage, in 3e, didn't just affect your skills but also modified your Reflex saves, AC, Touch AC, Initiative, and possibly other numbers as well (such as your attack bonus if you had weapon finesse). If something was hitting you with ability damage every round, that meant a fair bit of recalculation, much more than you'd have with a (non-stacking) flat penalty. Feasible (though nonetheless annoying) for an experienced player, although even they would occasionally forget to note some aspect of the penalty, but utterly nightmarish if you're dealing with new players. I speak from experience. It's one of the biggest reasons I dislike ability damage.

It also makes things too easy mode. Either every creature has well balanced stats, or you can one-shot a t-rex with an intelligence draining spell. Admittedly, some powers precluded the capacity for reducing an ability score below 1, but that really should have been the rule IMO and it wasn't. Ability damage was potent enough without being able to effectively insta-kill targets.

There might be room for it in the game, but unless they can find a way to fix those issues, I think it should remain completely optional. From my experiences, it's more of a nuisance than it's worth.

 

[nightwyrm]

There's still the modifier cascade. Dexterity damage, in 3e, didn't just affect your skills but also modified your Reflex saves, AC, Touch AC, Initiative, and possibly other numbers as well (such as your attack bonus if you had weapon finesse). If something was hitting you with ability damage every round, that meant a fair bit of recalculation, much more than you'd have with a (non-stacking) flat penalty. Feasible (though nonetheless annoying) for an experienced player, although even they would occasionally forget to note some aspect of the penalty, but utterly nightmarish if you're dealing with new players. I speak from experience. It's one of the biggest reasons I dislike ability damage.

You forgot the feats that requires stat mins and turns off if your stat is reduced below the min, and IIRC PrCs that turns off if you don't meet your feat requirements. In 3e, there's a lot of cascading.

As for dealing out penalties to attacks, ACs, skill checks etc. why not just call them penalties to whatever instead of ability damage if you're not going to actually impact the stat and everything that the stat influences.