Ability Focus: Spells?

[Thanee]

Can I take Ability Focus to add +2 to the DCs of my spells?

Even if it would work, you would only get the bonus to a single spell.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Even if it would work, you would only get the bonus to a single spell.

Hmm... a Marut's single Ability Focus (Fists) feat applies to the save DC of both the deafness caused by the left fist, and the blindness caused by the right fist.

It has two entries under Special Attacks: 1. Fists of Thunder and Lightning, and 2. Spell-Like Abilities.

Given that Ability Focus (Fists) applies to all saves related to that special attack, is there a reason it couldn't take Ability Focus (Spell-Like Abilities)?

-Hyp.

 

[irdeggman]

Would a warlock then be able to take ability focus (spell like ability) or would it be ability focus (invocations) or would it have to be ability focus (eldritch blast) and a different ability focus for other invocations?

that is the next logical place for this line of reasoning to go.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Not necessarily.

Actually, yes necessarily. "A spellcasting creature is not actually a member of a class unless its entry says so, and it does not gain any class abilities." That's the (at least main) difference. For the celestial charger, he has 7 levels cleric, thus he can turn undead. Not surprisingly, his entry says so. The planetar, on the other hand, casts spells as a cleric but he is not a cleric and thus (a) cannot turn undead, and (b) cannot spontaneously cast cure spells. And, not having the MM on hand I cannot talk about the non-OGL monsters.

 

[moritheil]

Actually, yes necessarily. "A spellcasting creature is not actually a member of a class unless its entry says so, and it does not gain any class abilities." That's the (at least main) difference. For the celestial charger, he has 7 levels cleric, thus he can turn undead. Not surprisingly, his entry says so. The planetar, on the other hand, casts spells as a cleric but he is not a cleric and thus (a) cannot turn undead, and (b) cannot spontaneously cast cure spells. And, not having the MM on hand I cannot talk about the non-OGL monsters.

If I understand correctly, Hyp isn't arguing that there is no difference between casting as a cleric and being a cleric. He's arguing that there is no difference between the Spells special attack in each case.

 

[pawsplay]

I think the bottom line is that "spellcasting" is not a discrete ability with a particular DC.

 

[Bad Paper]

Yeah, but trumpet archons get spells as fourteenth-level clerics without any levels in cleric. Would you allow Ability Focus (spells) for one of them?

 

[pawsplay]

Yeah, but trumpet archons get spells as fourteenth-level clerics without any levels in cleric. Would you allow Ability Focus (spells) for one of them?

No. I wouldn't. Probably just because, but I can provide some reasoning. The ability is spellcasting. The fact that there this ability grants a particular spell does not make it eligible, any more than a diseased animal is eligible to raise the DC of its disease.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No. I wouldn't. Probably just because, but I can provide some reasoning. The ability is spellcasting. The fact that there this ability grants a particular spell does not make it eligible, any more than a diseased animal is eligible to raise the DC of its disease.

Does the disease appear in the Special Attacks line of the stat block?

I think the bottom line is that "spellcasting" is not a discrete ability with a particular DC.

I'd point again to the Marut's Fists of Thunder and Lightning Special Attack, which allows it to make two different types of attack, each with their own Fort DC... to which a single Ability Focus feat applies.

How is that different to the Spell-Like Abilities Special Attack, which allows it to use several different SLAs, each with their own save DC?

If I understand correctly, Hyp isn't arguing that there is no difference between casting as a cleric and being a cleric. He's arguing that there is no difference between the Spells special attack in each case.

Right.

The Trumpet Archon has a special attack, Spells. The Hound Archon has a special attack, Spells. One derives from class levels, the other does not... but they're both listed as the special attack, Spells, in the stat block.

I was taking issue with "There's a difference between a spells "special attack" and spells from class levels." Spells-from-class-levels look identical in the Special Attacks line of a stat block to spells-not-from-class levels, so for the Hound Archon, we have a Spells 'special attack' which is 'spells from class levels'. Thus, we can't say "A Spells 'special attack' is different to spells from class levels", because in some cases, they're the same thing!

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

Would a warlock then be able to take ability focus (spell like ability) or would it be ability focus (invocations) or would it have to be ability focus (eldritch blast) and a different ability focus for other invocations?

that is the next logical place for this line of reasoning to go.

No, this is explicitly not allowed in the FAQ. Given that a Warlock cannot take Ability Focus for a single Invocation, I'd definitely rule that anyone with spells cannot take Ability Focus for all of their spells (or even one of them).