D&D 5E Ability score generation: "buy your dice roll"

[toucanbuzz]

It's cute but it fundamentally doesn't make sense....this is one of thousands of stat gen methods destined for and deserving of the scrapheap of history.

Seriously though, appreciate the read. I put it up here because I want it subjected to scrutiny as this came from the days of 3E/Pathfinder and I believe was designed around their "15 point buy" system. I haven't tried to clean it up for 5E in any way because I'm not a math guy and don't know if it translates mathematically.

If there's a way to make it fit, however, I'm all for it because I think standard array characters are boring: Every wizard is physically weak, every fighter is dumb, and unless you're a CHA-based caster, you're probably ugly too. Creates cliches. I also like the idea of player control: if you really want that 15+ stat guaranteed, you can get it, but at the expense of other stats, or you can take a chance and hope that 6+2d6 turns out as good as the odds suggest.

 

[Mannahnin]

One variant which caught my eye recently, which someone came up with in '75 or '76, was to roll ability scores and assign them where you like, to any vacant ability.

You could do this with just 3d6 in OD&D or B/X, but in AD&D or more recent editions presumably you'd use 4d6 drop the lowest.

This gives you a measure of control, in that you can assign a good number to the prime requisite for your preferred class, but doesn't guarantee that it will always be your highest stat. For example if I'm trying to make a Fighter and I roll a 15 or better I'm likely to assign that to Strength, but unless it's my very last roll, I could still roll something higher for one of my other stats.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I thought this was going to be about slipping the DM a $20 under the table. Which, honestly, I would be in favor of.

 

[DND_Reborn]

For all my players watching the threads, I only accept non-sequential 10's and 20's.

$10 will buy you an extra d6, $20 is a bargain and you get an extra 3d6 to use where you want.

 

[toucanbuzz]

I should clarify again it's D&D3.5/Pathfinder idea, and the numbers may not translate perfectly. Using Pathfinder (aka D&D 3.75), the "standard" array was a 15-point build, which translates exactly to D&D's array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. However, the table values for the ability scores are different now, and the previous edition net gain from racial ability score modifiers was only +2.

So I'm putting my weak math skills to the test* purely using averages, rounding down, and seeing if it breaks the 27 point buy of D&D:

All 3d6, reserve 5 points = 29 point buy.

10, 11, 10, 11, 10, 11 = 15 point buy. Using reserves to boost a primary stat twice to 15, another to 15, and another to 13, I end up with a final average array of 15, 15, 13, 10, 10, 10.

5 method C, (6 + 2d6), and a 3d6 = 27 point buy.

All 13s and a 10.

Method C x4, rest 3d6, reserve 1 point. = 29 point buy.

13, 13, 13, 13, 10, 11. = 25 point buy. Reserve to boost the 13 to a 15.

The Spoiler method except with averages (the big method A roll, method C, rest 3d6, and reserve 1 point) = 31 point buy.

16, 13, 10, 11, 10, 11 = (presuming a score of 16 has a value of 12 because it jumps into another category of ability boosts, consistent with what 3rd edition reasoned) a 27-point buy. Reserve to boost the 13 to 15.

Two Bs and a C + a trio of 3d6 = 30 point buy.

15, 15, 13, 10, 11, 10.

Method A, rest 3d6, reserve 2 = 30 point buy.

16, 10, 11, 10, 11, 10 = 24 points. Boost an 11 to a 15.

Method B, B, C (yeah you know me...), rest 3d6 = 30 point buy.

15, 15, 13, 10, 11, 10.

the odds strongly favour rolling 6+2d6 over reserving any points

Rolling 5 method Cs with one 3d6 came out worse, on average, than all other methods, though it is one of the safest routes to avoid a single digit score.

Conclusions?

I haven't tinkered every possible combination but feel that covers most. Purely taking averages, whatever method you use is likely, but not guaranteed, to land a stronger array of numbers than the standard array. However, this doesn't mean characters are necessarily more powerful. Rather, it will provide quite a bit more variety in characters, possibly in scores that aren't normally expected to be used for that character. Sure, a wizard might roll an 18 in strength, making his scores on a pure point-buy look artificially strong, but is the wizard really benefiting absurdly so from that? On the flipside, in real life people with perceived disadvantages overcome those to do great things. It makes for a much better story that a 6 CON character, sick since birth with an uncurable disease but keen of mind and will, still took out the lich-king, than the superhero did.

It's not for gamers who have a specific "build" in mind. That's what pure point-buy and standard array are for.

Could there be improvement?

Yeah, the reserve option for scores 14-16 is probably too strong and should be a 0. It wouldn't affect the averages. I don't want to tinker with this one too much because it's the "insurance policy" for players who fear rolling a 6 or the like, but it did allow a spike in the point buy averages when applied to a 13 and above.

To stay on course with D&D's point buy table versus the prior edition, I'm thinking for a revised 5E reserve (untested of course):

3-6, +3
7-9, +2
10-12, +1
13 and above, zero.

Otherwise, what happens if we change the +2d4 to a flat 1d8, and change the 2d6 to a flat d12? Well, we lower the averages for both of those by .5, making both those methods lose roughly 1-2 points on the above averages while the other methods stay unchanged. If we went that route, the reserve numbers definitely have to be changed to keep pace. That's whole new math, though, and I don't wanna.

* Disclaimer: I reserve the right to fall back on my excuse of poor math skills should any of this be wrong.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

* Disclaimer: I reserve the right to fall back on my excuse of poor math skills should any of this be wrong.

Sadly I don't have time to properly deconstruct this, but the methodology looks rather dodgy as using pure averages on something with such high randomness is definitely misleading, as is the "point buy" value you're providing.

Specifically, the point buy value includes "worthless" points and values them fully. There's a reason the standard array is the shape it is. There's a reason most characters have 1-2 "dump stats", especially when allowed to use point buy. Because in actual gameplay, it's more important to have a high primary stat and likely a decent secondary and tertiary stat. I mean, 13s across the board gets you 30 points in point buy, and whilst such a character would be "okay", they'd be noticeably weak compared to the other characters in real effectiveness terms (though certainly begging you to play a non-variant human). There are 27-point point buy characters who would be drastically more effective in real terms.

 

[Shiroiken]

The idea's interesting, but I feel it will overall be worse than straight up rolling. With 5 points, you're going to put 3 in your primary, because not only does it gives you your highest average, it guarantees a minimum 15. Then you're going to either use 2 points to have a strong secondary or moderate secondary & tertiary scores, leaving the rest as crap.

 

[Mordhau]

Decided to roll up a Fighter. Put 2 points into Str and Con and 1 into Wis.

I ended up with:

Str	18
Con	17
Dex	14
INt	14
Wis	13
Cha	12

 

[Li Shenron]

It's a goofy method, therefore I like it It has a certain 80s vibe to it.