Ability Score Rebalance

[Einlanzer0]

It's no secret that the ability scores aren't very well balanced in 5e, just as they weren't in previous editions. I dislike this as a general rule, because it makes character building less interesting and the resulting characters less diverse. I came up with some simple houserules to rebalance utilizing existing mechanics. I am strongly considering making spellcasting its own stat so that the mental scores can all be beefed up a little bit, but I want to playtest without doing that first.

1. Initiative is moved from Dex to Wis. Conceptually, wisdom is more like awareness. The attribute is actually thematically cohesive for the most part, it is just poorly named to reflect what it does (I think it should be renamed, but it's a losing battle so it's not worth the effort). This change is a nerf for Dex and a buff for Wis which I think is both thematically and mechanically appropriate.

2. Inspiration is modified to work more like Hero Points and Bardic inspiration and is now tied to Charisma. Inspiration now grants a 1d6 bonus to any die roll instead of advantage. Inspiration is still awarded by the DM, but when it is, it applies to the player and a number of allies equal to their charisma modifier. So, when Bob the Cleric, with a charisma of 18, becomes inspired, he also inspires 4 of his allies at the same time. Inspiration still doesn't stack, so it's usually best to use it as quickly as possible.

3. Hero Points are modified to work more like the original Inspiration and is now tied to Int. They are now called TP (Tactical Points). TP can grant advantage or negate disadvantage on any die roll. Your max TP is equal to your Int modifier + 2. 1/2 of TP is restored on a long rest, just like HD. You can also permanently sacrifice TP to permanently increase your proficiency with any skill by +1 (on a 1 TP for 1 skill basis).

 

[ccs]

I'd ask your players what they think of these changes.
If they're on board, go for it.
If they're not though do you have a plan?

Ex; A few years back we had a would-be DM who wanted to radically change things. Stats, classes, spell casting systems, races, etc. He wanted D&D to be a lot less like D&D and more like.... Well, I don't know. But it wasn't the game we players wanted to play.
We listened to his ideas & gave him a choice. Run D&D or be a player in a D&D game. Because next session we were playing D&D.

 

[Blue]

I agree with you that the ability scores are not balanced, but I see the balance points differently.

My ranking
1. Dex is king. So many things trigger off it.
2. Con is HP and a big save (plus concentration saves for some) / Wis is perception, a big save, and i a casting stat for some.
4. Chr is casting stat for some, hasa number of class features based of it, and is used for your "RP skills", a whole pillar of the game. / Str is attack stat for some, and use heavy armor without slowing down
6. Int is a casting stat for one.

1. I can see taking Dex down a peg, but I'd give initiative to Int. Wis will determine if you are surprised already, Int can be quick witted and speed of thought. At least that will give a decent boost to the weakest and one removal from the strongest. Wis doesn't need any more help, it's already tied for second.

2. This doesn't help much. Or rather, you get the same from inspiration either way - you just want your allies to have a higher Chr. Chr already has three casters on it, I'm not sure you need to raise it up more.

3. Hero Points is an optional rule that I'm not familiar with off the top of my head to discuss how this changes from baseline. That said, they seem really powerful and that they would favor some classes more than others. Rogues with a single base attack and needing advantage will love it at the appropriate time so they can deliver SA when all else falls through, while a 2-3 attack fighter will merely like it a lot. Casters relying n saves will still be able to use it defensively like other classes, but will miss out on the offensive use of it unlike weapon wielders or casters who are making spell attack rolls.

 

[Horwath]

1. Moving initiative from dex to wis+int
2. int grants extra skill/tool prof per bonus. int grants extra language per bonus. int grants number of rerolls per day per point of bonus in skills you have proficient.

 

[Yunru]

How did 4e do it again? I know most of the stats were based on the higher of two. Int and Dex were both AC weren't they? What was Init?

 

[CapnZapp]

Allow people to use the best of each pair Str/Con, Dex/Int, and Wis/CHA. Boom, problem fixed.

Now you use either Dex or Int for initiative, Fireball saves, and AC.

Strength-fighters can make "Fortitude" saves. Clerics aren't hosed by the occasional Charisma check.

And much more...

 

[Einlanzer0]

Sorry, but I feel I should offer some counterarguments to the above suggestions.

First, I do not think that Initiative fits Int better than it fits Wis, but I had failed to consider surprise as an existing factor for Wisdom. Int does not reflect how quick-witted you are, it's simply a composite of your general knowledge and your reasoning skills. Wisdom, on the other hand, reflects how attuned you are to your surroundings, which translates into your readiness to react to a novel situation. Although, as mentioned above, that's incorporated into perception and surprise. So, thinking on it more, I think Initiative should stay with Dex, at least until I get around playtesting separating Dex from Agi, which I intend to do soon. I think creating houserules for carrying capacity will help strength compete better with dex will help in the meantime.

Second, I'm trying to do something that's interesting. Letting people just choose a stat they want for an existing mechanic like Initiative frankly isn't that interesting, and at best is a bandaid. It "fixes" the problem by creating another problem. If, for example, you could choose to apply your Dex or your Int to an Initiative check, where's the incentive to not dump the other one? What I'm trying to do is increase MAD to make character building more interesting and meaningful by giving everyone some incentive to use everything and forcing them to choose which they thematically prefer for their character. Consequently, I want to have as little overlap as possible.

Third, I disagree about Inspiration bonus for Charisma not helping much. Granted, it's under the DM control at the end of the day, but if the DM gives out Inspiration like they're intended to, it's a huge boon for the party. It also incentivizes high charisma characters to do inspiring things, like a charismatic person actually would.

I am uncertain about the TP rule. I agree that it borders on being too much and affects some classes more significantly than others. However, you can also argue that getting advantage is easy enough to do already that it's not as OP as it looks. It's worth noting that, at best, you effectively only have 1-3 uses of it per day, so it's not that insane. I'll keep thinking on it and will playtest it in the meantime.

 

[Xeviat]

I think you're correct in ignoring the offense part of stats right now, as "everyone" (okay, most) are going to be maxing their offense stat regardless of what it is. Charisma being weak doesn't really apply to a Sorcerer or Warlock because they're going to put points in it no matter what.

Str
*Carrying Capacity
*Str Checks (common)
*Str Saves (uncommon)
*Heavy Armor Speed (linked to carrying capacity for some)
*Jump distance

Dex
*Initiative
*AC in Light/Medium Armor
*Dex Checks (common)
*Dex Saves (common)

Con
*HP
*Con Checks (uncommon; most seem to be con saves)
*Con Saves (common)

Int
*Int Checks (common)
*Int Saves (rare)

Wis
*Wis Checks (very common; see perception)
*Wis Saves (common)

Cha
*Cha Checks (common)
*Cha Saves (rare)

This highlights some of the issues. Con is great for everyone; it's painful to have a low Con, no matter what. 4E avoided this by having Con apply more to recovery than to total HP. It also shows that the mental stats have nothing other than checks and saves. I think this is a problem. Mental checks are common, but aside from Perception/Insight, they can often be ignored if you don't intend to use them (they're active use).

 

[Guest 6801328]

1. Initiative is moved from Dex to Wis. Conceptually, wisdom is more like awareness. The attribute is actually thematically cohesive for the most part, it is just poorly named to reflect what it does (I think it should be renamed, but it's a losing battle so it's not worth the effort). This change is a nerf for Dex and a buff for Wis which I think is both thematically and mechanically appropriate.

I sorta like this. Nothing I would house-rule, but if were could retcon 5e I'd vote for this.

2. Inspiration is modified to work more like Hero Points and Bardic inspiration and is now tied to Charisma. Inspiration now grants a 1d6 bonus to any die roll instead of advantage. Inspiration is still awarded by the DM, but when it is, it applies to the player and a number of allies equal to their charisma modifier. So, when Bob the Cleric, with a charisma of 18, becomes inspired, he also inspires 4 of his allies at the same time. Inspiration still doesn't stack, so it's usually best to use it as quickly as possible.

I do NOT like this one. I like Inspiration just the way it is. I understand the desire to get more utility out of Charisma, but it seems to me you are conflating two very different applications of the word Inspiration. Inspired Roleplaying vs. Inspired Leader.

3. Hero Points are modified to work more like the original Inspiration and is now tied to Int. They are now called TP (Tactical Points). TP can grant advantage or negate disadvantage on any die roll. Your max TP is equal to your Int modifier + 2. 1/2 of TP is restored on a long rest, just like HD. You can also permanently sacrifice TP to permanently increase your proficiency with any skill by +1 (on a 1 TP for 1 skill basis).

This is better. It sort of reminds me of how Hope works in The One Ring, but stingier.

How about this, combining Cha and Int:
"After the die is rolled but before you see the result, you may add your Int modifier to the total. You may do this a number of times equal to your Cha modifier. All charges reset whenever you take a Long Rest.

 

[Einlanzer0]

I think you're correct in ignoring the offense part of stats right now, as "everyone" (okay, most) are going to be maxing their offense stat regardless of what it is. Charisma being weak doesn't really apply to a Sorcerer or Warlock because they're going to put points in it no matter what.

Str
*Carrying Capacity
*Str Checks (common)
*Str Saves (uncommon)
*Heavy Armor Speed (linked to carrying capacity for some)
*Jump distance

Dex
*Initiative
*AC in Light/Medium Armor
*Dex Checks (common)
*Dex Saves (common)

Con
*HP
*Con Checks (uncommon; most seem to be con saves)
*Con Saves (common)

Int
*Int Checks (common)
*Int Saves (rare)

Wis
*Wis Checks (very common; see perception)
*Wis Saves (common)

Cha
*Cha Checks (common)
*Cha Saves (rare)

This highlights some of the issues. Con is great for everyone; it's painful to have a low Con, no matter what. 4E avoided this by having Con apply more to recovery than to total HP. It also shows that the mental stats have nothing other than checks and saves. I think this is a problem. Mental checks are common, but aside from Perception/Insight, they can often be ignored if you don't intend to use them (they're active use).

As if that wasn't bad enough, the skills tied to the mental stats are more likely to be group focused than individual focused, as opposed to the skills tied to the physical stats. In other words, when one character in the party is good at one of them (say, Arcana), it dramatically reduces the pressure for anyone else in the party to be good at it also. Most of the physical skills don't work this way. Someone else's proficiency with Athletics is not as likely to carry you.

Honestly, I can't believe this wasn't one of the first things they tried to address in this edition. Giving Int, Wis, Cha mechanically interesting ancillary effects in the same vein as Str, Dex, and Con is a great way to make character building more fun and to encourage greater diversity among PC classes.