Ability Scores - A different arrangement

Roman

First Post
Ok, it is time for my annual thread about ability scores (I cannot find my old thread on this anyway, though I did archive some of the best posts from it:) ).

Imagine you were constructing a new system of ability scores (ignoring the current d20 system of 6 ability scores of which 3 are physical and 3 are mental [1 of those 3 is really social]) which was expected to have the following parameters:

1) Increased level of realism (as compared to the current 6 ability score system)
2) Better balance between the individual ability scores

What ability scores would you include in such a system and what would each of them effect? Would you have some ability scores correlate and if so how would you 'force' them to correlate with each other?

As a side question, if you wanted to split the one social ability score 'Charisma' into more parts, what parts would you split it into?
 

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I'd split it into four scores a la GURPS:

Strength
Dex
Intelligence
Health/Con

Everything else can be based on Skill or class.

Alternately, do it a la Dangerous Journeys:

Body
Mind
Spirit

You can derive 99% of what you need to from these scores - generally, strength, coordination and health tend to go together, and an average score may indicate higher dex but lower strength, or what have you.

As it is, the 6 existing ones seem to fit 99% of cases, so changing them wouldn't really come up with anything "more realistic."
 
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Str:
Str when inebriated:
Dex:
Dex when inebriated:
Con:
Con when inebriated:
Int:
Int when inebriated:
Wis:
Wis when inebriated:
Cha:
Cha when inebriated:
I would also add Comeliness, which would increase when others are inebriated:D
 

I'd keep str, int, dex, con, and chr, ditch wis, and add Willpower (wil) and Perception (per). wil would be used for will saves, perception used for spot, listen, and other associated rolls where gauging clue[ful,less]ness is needed.
 

In an old and aborted homebrewed RPG I designed with my elder brother, the abilities were something like that, IIRC:

Size / Presence
Health / Empathy
Agility / Arete
Beauty / Memory

Each physical ability is tied to a mental ability. There was some stuff about body, mind, and soul all being one and the same.

Physical size is thus the physical equivalent of Charisma, and so on.

Size could be understood as Strength, in D&D terms, but that's not exactly that, either. Presence is what D&D calls Charisma, the size of your spiritual self.

Health (D&D Con) is the strength of your connection to the world of the living. Empathy (D&D Wis) is the strength of your connection to the spirit world.

Agility (D&D Dex) is your bodily coordination and suppleness, arete is your intellectual coordination and suppleness (D&D Int).

And finally, Beauty and Memory are oddities tied to the setting's own quirks. It was a world where ugliness is a synonym of taint, and beauty of purity. But ugliness and beauty are more than mere physical appearance, as there's a spiritual overtone. Remember, body, mind, and soul are one, just one.
The world was under attack by the forces of Nightmare and funky stuff like that. Basically, if you were Good (no alignment, but whatever), you had beauty; if you were Evil, you hadn't. Memory was the extent of your connection with the ideal of your mythical ancestor.

There was a nifty idea behind the system, and it was manifestations. In certain circumstances, it was possible to temporarily move a few points from a physical ability to the corresponding mental ability, or the reverse. Thus, a charismatic character could look bigger than he was. (That's why characters with a high Presence score are said to be "larger than life"...) You can look at Gandalf's intimidation of Bilbo as an example of what this gives for the case of Size and Presence. You could also get exhausted from caring too much for other people (moving Health points toward Empathy). And so on.

There were also different types of magic, one for each mental ability IIRC. Can't find back the magic file.

Here's the original text:

Les Aspects.
Les aspects représentent le potentiel d’un personnage, ce qu’il est, non pas ce qu’il sait faire. Elles sont divisés entre aspects physiques (Taille, Vitalité, Agilité et Beauté) et aspects spirituels (Présence, Empathie, Eveil et Mémoire).Dans l’univers de Nomades, l’esprit, le corps et l’âme sont intimement lié, et tous les aspects matériels ont une contrepartie spirituelle.
Elles sont notées de –10 à +10, le minimum à la création étant –5, le maximum +5. Un score moyen est égal à 0. Les scores supérieurs à 10 sont surnaturels.


La Taille est la carrure d’un personnage, plus que sa hauteur. Elle influe positivement sur sa force physique et sur sa résistance aux blessures, et négativement sur sa discrétion. La Taille, c’est à dire la place qu’occupe un personnage dans le monde physique, est liée à sa Présence, qui reflète son importance dans le monde spirituel. La Présence reflète à la fois la conscience de soi d’un personnage, sa force de volonté, son charisme.

La Vitalité mesure la force de vie qui anime un personnage, le flux qui le rattache au monde vivant. Elle influe positivement sur sa santé, sa résistance aux maladies et aux poisons, sa capacité à survivre et à récupérer de ses blessures, son endurance et sur sa force. La Vitalité d’un personnage est associée à son Empathie, qui elle reflète le lien qui unit l’âme du personnage au monde spirituel, et donc sa capacité à le ressentir et à agir sur lui. L’Empathie définit donc l’intuition, la perception inconsciente, instinctive, affective, du monde et des autres.

L’Agilité représente l’adresse, la coordination, le sens de l’équilibre, la souplesse et la vivacité physique d’un personnage. Elle influe positivement sur un grand nombre de capacités physiques. L’Agilité du corps est liée à celle de l’esprit : c’est l’Eveil d’un personnage qui mesure tout à la fois son degré de conscience, sa capacité à comprendre et à manipuler les concepts abstraits, la perception active, réfléchie, consciente, de son environnement.

La Beauté est plus dans l’univers de Nomades que la seule apparence : pour les habitants des Terres-Rouges, dans un monde rongé par le Cauchemar, elle reflète le degré d’innocence et de pureté d’une personne : la laideur est un signe de corruption, volontaire ou non. La Beauté influe positivement sur toute les interactions sociales, la laideur étant vu à contrario comme caractérisant les personnes maléfiques ou maudites. Si le Cauchemar détruit l’apparence d’un individu, il s’attaque aussi à son identité même, cherchant à la détruire par l’oubli . La Mémoire permettant de se souvenir non seulement de ce qu’on sait, mais aussi de ce qu’on est, est liée à la Beauté. La Mémoire donne accès aux connaissances, mais aussi au souvenir de l’Héritage du personnage, au Rêve primordial ou naquit l’Ancêtre de son peuple.

Le lien entre les aspects physiques et spirituels d’un personnage est la manifestation : dans certaine circonstance, l’aspect spirituel du personnage se manifeste physiquement, ou l’aspect spirituel modifie l’aspect physique. Chaque fois qu’un aspect spirituel voit son score augmenter de 2 (en cours de jeu), le joueur peut choisir soit d’augmenter de 1 l’aspect physique lié de manière définitive, soit d’augmenter de 2 le score de manifestation de cet aspect. Il peut ensuite, une fois par jour pour la durée d’une scène, ajouter son score de manifestation à l’aspect physique.
Inversement, chaque fois que le score d’un aspect spirituel diminue de 2, le joueur doit choisir entre diminuer de 1 le score de l’aspect physique lié, ou de 2 le score de manifestation lié, sachant que si le score de manifestation devient négatif, c’est le MJ qui choisit, une fois par jour et pour la durée d’une scène, de la soustraire au score de l’aspect du personnage.​
 

Funilly enough, I was actually thinking about this the other day. I was thinking of breaking wisdom up into Perception and Willpower (and possibly Intuition too). I'd probably leave charisma as is, or rename it Personality to better reflect its roll as strength of personality. So We'd have:

Strength
Dexterity
Constition
Intelligence
Intuition
Willpower
Personality
Perception

Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution would change in polymorph, Intelligence, Intuition, Willpower & Personality wouldn't, and Perception would take the lower of the two.

I'd move Initiative to Perception, and I'd use both Str and Dex for melee attack rolls (maybe Perception and Dex for ranged). Obviously, this would require some re-jigging of ACs. Also, I'd consider distributing saves accross all the stats rather than having just the three.

EDIT: I wouldn't claim that this is any more realistic, but to me it does seem more believable. I'd also say that if the saves were dished out right, the scores would be better balanced against each other.

glass.
 
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Neuromuscular Strength (strength and endurance)
Neuromuscular Alacrity (dexterity and perception) **
Constitution (willpower)
Cognition (intelligence)
Charisma (comeliness and personality) *

*There's been plenty of fights over this: being pretty doesn't necessarily mean having a persuading personality. Still, I've never had a problem with this; most of charisma is player defined anyway.

** Could be Split into Dexterity and Perception.

The problem with too many attributes is you have implausible contrasts. 18 Str and 7 Con. ?? What's going on??

The problem with too few is you have ability overlap. What if I'm very perceptive, but very foolish and headstrong. What's my wis score? What if I'm a old sage who doesn't really notice anything happening around him. What's my wis score?
 

I would use the following breakdown

SIZ
Size: Physical size and power. Includes strength and health. Modifies melee damage, hit points, fortitude save.

DEX
Dexterity: Manual dexterity and aim. Modifies to hit with melee and missile weapons, affects manual skills.

AGL
Agility: Speed of reactions, litheness of body. Modifies AC, Reflex save and mobility related skills.

INT
Intelligence: as per D&D

PER
Perception: Awareness of surroundings, sensitivity to people or situations. Modifies Initiative and the classic wisdom based skills such as spot and listen.

CNF
Confidence: Willpower, self-assuredness, bravery. Modifies Will save and classic charisma based skills.

This is broadly an arrangement I've used in RPGs I've developed myself in the past.

Cheers
 

Planesailing, were you the one who said a few weeks back that they had extensive playtime with Runequest and CoC logged? That's darned close to the BRP system that those two games use.
 

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